351 Cleveland build

[HOT_ROD_CAR]

I am buying a stock 351 Cleveland, 2v heads where someone has installed a four barrel Holley carb and an aluminum intake. It has factory headers. I would like to increase the horse power and find out how to modify it for the oiling problem that these engines are known for, and do all the work before I install this engine. What do you suggest? Cam? If so, specifically what cam and what are the specs that would work best for everyday street and weekend strip driving? Is the stock cam good for this or is it a good idea to replace it? Open to any and all ideas. Thank you.

 

[baddad457]

For what you're going to do with it, no mods needed to the oiling system. The stock cams suck. A good starting point for a cam is Summit's P/N 5200 cam. Might be milder though for what you want.(as far as strip running) I used one in a 400M in a 77 F100 and loved it.

 

[HOT_ROD_CAR]

For what you're going to do with it, no mods needed to the oiling system. The stock cams suck. A good starting point for a cam is Summit's P/N 5200 cam. Might be milder though for what you want.(as far as strip running) I used one in a 400M in a 77 F100 and loved it.

Excellent! What would you estimate the hp of this motor currently (stock 351 Cleveland, 2v heads, Edelbrock intake and 4v Holley)? What about with this Summit cam - roughly how much would the hp & torque increase? Also, I read that some of these engines have the timing retarded 2 degrees for emissions. I plan to replace the gears and timing chain with a double set when I replace the cam. Do you know if the newer double timing chain corrects for this? If not, how could I determine 2 degrees on the camshaft accurately? Is there a tool made for this?

Thank you.

 

[Totalled]

Run an oil line from the front sender port to the rear sender port.

 

[baddad457]

Excellent! What would you estimate the hp of this motor currently (stock 351 Cleveland, 2v heads, Edelbrock intake and 4v Holley)? What about with this Summit cam - roughly how much would the hp & torque increase? Also, I read that some of these engines have the timing retarded 2 degrees for emissions. I plan to replace the gears and timing chain with a double set when I replace the cam. Do you know if the newer double timing chain corrects for this? If not, how could I determine 2 degrees on the camshaft accurately? Is there a tool made for this?

Thank you.

The factory cams were ground with the retard setting, there's no difference I've ever seen in timing sets. Only sure way to verify the cam is installed at any setting is to use a Degree Wheel when you assemble it. Can't give you a HP/TQ estimate, but it'll be way more fun to drive than the stock cam is. Your HP with the stock cam and 4 bbl would be something like 20 hp over the stock rating

 

[baddad457]

Run an oil line from the front sender port to the rear sender port.

Ditto! This will equalize the pressure between the front and rear.

 

[Thumper113]

Back in my hotrod days, I used to have this book. It has some really good info & tips, I seem to remember it specifically had info on improving the oiling in Cleveland & FE blocks. Believe me, it's a real good book to have when working on older Ford V8's.

 

[almostclueless]

http://www.network54.com/Forum/119419/


The Cleveland has the same oil system as many other muscle era engines from all three manufacturers.


I have built several with redlines under 6K....with no oiling issues. The factory valves will fall apart before the oiling will pose a problem.....I wouldn't take them above 5500. I used new valves in my last build just because if they do let go it's all over. But the oiling myth is anti ford BS unless you wind the hell outta it.


If I built a 2V today;


Stock block bored and honed .030 and no more, surfaced
Stock crank turned for standard rebuild
Stock rods with good aftermarket bolts
Stock heads with 3 angle, new guide liners, surfaced
sealed power forged pistons
Clevite P-series bearings
ARP main and head bolts
melling STOCK VOLUME pump and aftermarket driveshaft
Crane cams energizer 222/222 (.050 specs), matching crane lifters and crane springs (shimmed to proper height)
cloyes double roller timing chain
felpro gaskets
rebuilt duraspark 460 dizzy (or aftermarket), mechanical advance tailored to the cam (IMPORTANT)
weiand xcelerator for 2V heads
holley 600CFM electric choke (yes, 600CFM), or edelbrock 600 if I refused to work on carbs and feel like pissing hp away
1 5/8 headers for the chassis in mind

Properly built, it will have a little lope to it, TONS of torque, and if the carb and dizzy see just a little proper tuning would make anything below 4000lb with 3.25 gears or better really move out.

 

[baddad457]

The oiling problem really isn't a myth. It stems from the fact that the main oiling gallery is the right side lifter gallery. With it running thru there, some of the pressure is bled off from clearances in the lifter bores. It does create a main bearing starvation at higher rpms in #'s 4 & 5. The other result is poor pressure at idle speeds, that can be cured by running an external pressure line from the front port to the rear port and using a high volume oil pump. This fix isn't manditory to do in normal driving applications, but does offer an easy fix for those who are leary of having an engine that shows "zero" or near zero oil pressure when puttering around town and sitting at a traffic lite.

 

[almostclueless]

I disagree. I have a quality oil pressure guage on my current cleveland, plumbed into the rear port where pressure would be lowest. It never drops below 30PSI at an idle on a smoking hot day. No tapping ever, thoroughly satisfied with pressure readings. And I've run the pi__ outta it, just below 6K


The real fix for a stock block and rpms above 6K is bushing the lifter bores (with a properly sized hole) and restrictors to the cam bearings.


I doubt the oil line hurts anything........so lets agree to disagree.

 

[baddad457]

I disagree. I have a quality oil pressure guage on my current cleveland, plumbed into the rear port where pressure would be lowest. It never drops below 30PSI at an idle on a smoking hot day.


I doubt the oil line hurts anything........so lets agree to disagree.

Wait til you get more miles on it and the bearing clearances open up. You'll see the pressure drop off to ten or below. Happens everytime.

 

[almostclueless]

6 years my daily driver, 30 miles round trip stop and go. It's already satisfied my expectations.

 

[baddad457]

65750 miles..............give it another 40 thou and you'll start to see the pressure drop off.