351 C swap

[fordmike1]

my windsor is a 9.2 deck they changed in 1973 I believe to 9.5 and the cleveland 2v heads might flow enough to make 400 hp but not with a stock dish 2v piston

The windsor blocks had a 9.480" deck height in 69 & 70 then in 71 Ford raised it to 9.503. Clevelands had the 9.213 deck heights.

 

[HOT_ROD_CAR]

In Baddads words
you've lost this arguement. Your points are weak at best....

Those comments were directed toward you, or did you miss that!

If you're so confident and you have the ba _ _ s, put your money where your mouth is and take your a_ _ out to the drag strip and challenge someone with a stock 351 Cleveland!

Then, you will have some experience to get on here and write about instead of just reading and "arm-chair" commenting about what you think you know!

The world is full of individuals who read some text and think that it encompasses all situations, circumstances, and therefore makes them an expert. Talk is cheap! You need some real experience to help you get back in touch with reality, and back up what you've commented here. Hopefully, this will enable you to pull your head out of your a _ _!

 

[flaminranger]

baddad I have to admit I can't remember the pin height or rod length off the top of my head and I couldn't find the pistons I used old trw 1 step up from the sportsman style with a dished piston. I know the block ain't no 9.5 deck cause when I bought the pistons and installed 1 it stuck out of the hole and the shorter pistons did and the rods I used were the short early truck rods.
I remember ordering the new pistons and getting them for a 9.2 deck block. @ least that is what I was told when I bought them.
so I am man enough to admit I could be wrong it might not be a 9.2 but it sure ain't no 9.5.
back to the subject my opinion is I still wouldn't put that old heavy engine into a ranger. that is a lot of weight over the nose

 

[HOT_ROD_CAR]

back to the subject my opinion is I still wouldn't put that old heavy engine into a ranger. that is a lot of weight over the nose

There are many V8 modified Rangers on youtube that seem to do OK with the weight.

The 302 weighs 460 lbs, 351C 550 lbs, 429/460 720 lbs.

351C Ranger:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0wW7fQiAts

429 Ranger:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfIhyTPTqQ4&feature=autoplay&list=ULMAdUmCn5LO8&index=7&playnext=1

460 Ranger:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkZUCrIov1Q

 

[baddad457]

2V heads with just a cam, intake & carb will not net you 400hp. You must be in the same dream world as them nutswinger GM LS guys.

Go ahead and bolt on a Cleveland timing chain & cover and water pump to that Boss block in the Ford racing catalog, oops they dont fit wrong block but all the Windsor things will fit . Yes it does have Cleveland sized mains but that dont make it a Cleveland and go ahead and bolt on a set of Cleveland heads on it and run them that still dont make it a Cleveland and to top it off the engine would leak water and over heat why? Becuse its NOT A CLEVELAND with water ports in the block to feed the water to the T-stat. It feed water thru the intake becuse its a Windsor design block. Remember Clevelands use a dry intake and Windsors use a wet intake or did you forget that??? The only thing that that 351 Boss block has in common with a Cleveland is, you could get it in a Cleveland deck height (and Windsor to) and Cleveland sized mains. The Cleveland crank will fit in the block but that is about it as it would take some machining to be able to run it as its a Windsor block. Alot of cranks made for the stroker 351w are cut for the Chevy 2.100 rods does that make them a chevy crank? NOT!!! The fact is the windsor block is superior design over the Cleveland block and that is why it continues to be cast and used in all forms of modern racing. The american Cleveland heads were and are junk and that is why so many people want the Aussi heads or they just go for the superior redesigned aftermarket Cleveland style heads .

Next time you're in a book store, pick up a copy of "Max PerformanceFord V8's on a Budget" Turn to page 123. There you'll find a stock 2 bbl headed Cleveland with exactly what I listed as mods. It made 405 hp @6000 rpms & 420 ft/lbs torque @ 5000. Nowhere above did I say the Boss 351 F/R blocks were strickly Clevelands. Ford took the best of both designs and combined them to make a first class racing block. Cleveland deck, Cleveland mains, Windsor oiling system, coolant routing is a minor issue, but the dry intake Cleveland design does make for easier manifold changes. I guess you've never really ever thought about stuff like this, you're too busy bench racing.

 

[fordmike1]

If you're so confident and you have the ba _ _ s, put your money where your mouth is and take your a_ _ out to the drag strip and challenge someone with a stock 351 Cleveland!

Then, you will have some experience to get on here and write about instead of just reading and "arm-chair" commenting about what you think you know!

If I find any Clevelands out at the track (I dought it) I will be sure to make sure and race them with the Mustang (all 840hp Windsor)sitting on my trailer right now. If that makes them look silly and I know it will I will pull out my 91 Mustang coupe with an old school Windsor that I built over 17 years ago to give them a better chance of hanggin with a Windsor powered car.
Dont challange me as I can back up my words.......

 

[fordmike1]

Next time you're in a book store, pick up a copy of "Max PerformanceFord V8's on a Budget" Turn to page 123. There you'll find a stock 2 bbl headed Cleveland with exactly what I listed as mods. It made 405 hp @6000 rpms & 420 ft/lbs torque @ 5000. Nowhere above did I say the Boss 351 F/R blocks were strickly Clevelands. Ford took the best of both designs and combined them to make a first class racing block. Cleveland deck, Cleveland mains, Windsor oiling system, coolant routing is a minor issue, but the dry intake Cleveland design does make for easier manifold changes. I guess you've never really ever thought about stuff like this, you're too busy bench racing.

Anything can be written in a book and a dyno shows the real truth. I dont read books to get facts I get them from being out there doing it.

That new Boss block uses windsor parts heads, timing chain, timing cover, crank, intake manifold, oil pan, oil pump, distributor so yea I guess its a Cleveland. Yes it has Cleveland sized main and do you know why? Its to keep the bearing speeds down for less friction causing less heat and yea I know that you could get it in a Cleveland deck height so you could run Cleveland heads and intake on a Windsor block. Draining the coolant is no big deal to change an intake so your comment about that was just fishing to make yourseld sound a little better. GOOD JOB!!! You are so stuck on yourself that when proved wrong you just dont know when to shut your FKN mouth. Whats wrong your pride get hurt.

 

[baddad457]

Anything can be written in a book and a dyno shows the real truth. I dont read books to get facts I get them from being out there doing it.

That new Boss block uses windsor parts heads, timing chain, timing cover, crank, intake manifold, oil pan, oil pump, distributor so yea I guess its a Cleveland. Yes it has Cleveland sized main and do you know why? Its to keep the bearing speeds down for less friction causing less heat and yea I know that you could get it in a Cleveland deck height so you could run Cleveland heads and intake on a Windsor block. Draining the coolant is no big deal to change an intake so your comment about that was just fishing to make yourseld sound a little better. GOOD JOB!!! You are so stuck on yourself that when proved wrong you just dont know when to shut your FKN mouth. Whats wrong your pride get hurt.

I'm not the one posting juvenile comments and incorrect facts am I ? Like 9.2 decked 1970 Windsor blocks that never existed ?(maybe you should read a few books.) The blocks can be used with either style head, but obviously the 9.2 deck block is intended for use with Cleveland components. And congrats on figuring out the benefits to using Cleveland sized mains, so you're not completely ignorant. But you DO have a lot more to learn. As for your "claim" to your Windsor having 840 hp ? Sounds like another internet myth to me.

 

[fordmike1]

I'm not the one posting juvenile comments and incorrect facts am I ? Like 9.2 decked 1970 Windsor blocks that never existed.
As for your "claim" to your Windsor having 840 hp ? Sounds like another internet myth to me.

When did I ever say that a Windsor had a 9.2 deck block? That was flaminranger so you probly should get your facts straight before you post them again.......

Well AZ dyno chip dyno'ed and tuned it and according to their dyno thats what it makes. The car runs in the mid to low 9's and best MPH was 142 so do the math for yourself and figure it out.

 

[baddad457]

When did I ever say that a Windsor had a 9.2 deck block? That was flaminranger so you probly should get your facts straight before you post them again.......

Well AZ dyno chip dyno'ed and tuned it and according to their dyno thats what it makes. The car runs in the mid to low 9's and best MPH was 142 so do the math for yourself and figure it out.

Sorry, I don't take3 internet brags as fact, same as you don't believe what's printed in books.

 

[HOT_ROD_CAR]

fordmike1,

I think the dry desert air has affected your cognitive abilities and you can't help but to feel like an all knowing Cleveland Internet Expert. So in the interest of not taking advantage of your ignorance, lay down the axe and just walk away!

You are a blow hard and an idiot! It's a well known fact that you can't win an argument with an idiot, so let it go already!

With that being said, we were discussing stock engines, specifically the 351C, and this has been a lot of fun and all, but let's call an end to this and get back to "tyler's 87 Ranger" initial post. His uncle gave him a 351C out of an Mach 1 and he is considering installing it in his Ranger.

 

[fordmike1]

fordmike1,

I think the dry desert air has affected your cognitive abilities and you can't help but to feel like an all knowing Cleveland Internet Expert.

You claim to own a cleveland, talk about how great they are, know so many facts about them and yet you post page numbers (103, 104 & 105) of the Ford racing catalog that shows pictures of Windsor blocks and not Clevelands. Looks like your the blow hard and idiot.

It's a well known fact that you can't win an argument with an idiot, so let it go already!

Again you posted facts and were completely wrong making you the IDIOT!!!

You have a cleveland in your Ranger and you think that it is so fast and I guess that you would since you are in the electronics field and dont know any better.

 

[baddad457]

2V heads with just a cam, intake & carb will not net you 400hp. MIGHT WANT TO TRY IT BEFORE KNOCKING ITgo ahead and bolt on a set of Cleveland heads on it and run them that still dont make it a Cleveland and to top it off the engine would leak water and over heat why? BECAUSE ANYONE WITH HALF A BRAIN WOULD SPEND THE TIME TO MODIFY THE COOLANT PORTS FIRST ? . It feed water thru the intake becuse MORE "CORRECT INFO" ? The fact is the windsor block is superior design over the Cleveland block and that is why it continues to be cast and used in all forms of modern racing. The american Cleveland heads were and are junk.

The fact is the Windsor's very existence now is the result of a corporate decision made in the 70's. Anyone with half a brain knows that Ford made many regrettable decisions then, the Cleveland was just one such blunder................Or was it ? Why was it continued well into the late 80's in the Australian market if it was so bad ? And why was it raced successfully after it's demise in the O.E. vehicle market here ? I don't recall any Prostock racers using Windsors while the Cleveland was being campaigned. Ditto for Nascar.

 

[bobbywalter]

hot rod car, are you from michigan? do you live near ann arbor? friends with dominic samiterno?


you running an aod with w3 etched in the top?? i built an aod for a cleve ranger out there about 5 years ago. dom at national built two cleve rangers, one had the dakota rack on it. there have been many from clements to down river i have seen over the years...


i did the c4 in doms personal truck and an aod he was needing to do for a guy near ann arbor. not allot of these things so i am wondering aloud here and hoping for a good report.






302 vs 351 c

 

[fordmike1]

Why was it continued well into the late 80's in the Australian market if it was so bad ? And why was it raced successfully after it's demise in the O.E. vehicle market here ? I don't recall any Prostock racers using Windsors while the Cleveland was being campaigned.

When did I ever say that the Cleveland was a bad engine? Go back thru this whole thread and find where I said that and quote so we all can see it. I said that the 302 was a better choise as its tight in a Ranger and the 302 will fit alot easier. I even said that a GM LS was a better choise becuse its a small compact engine package and I hate GM....

Ditto for Nascar.

Yes I know that the engines that the Ford Nascar teams just replaced with the FR9 were Windsor blocks with Cleveland mains and yates heads are called Clevelands in your world. In the rest of the world they are known as 358ci Windsor engines with Yates cylinder heads. Here is a link to the RoushYates performance parts( http://www.roushyatesparts.com/Used-Racing-Engines-s/532.htmand )and they dont even offer any Cleveland parts . Why is that? Are they just sold out? Its becuse they havent used a Cleveland in Nascar in a long time!!! Only Windsor's.