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What Aternative Energy source do you think?

reno

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Which energy source do you think will be next? I figure we will see at least 2 more come out by the end of the year.
 


MAKG

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TWO more?

Two more scams, maybe.

A truly new energy source hasn't been invented since the early 1950s (nuclear power).

No, neither batteries nor anything based upon hydrogen are energy sources.
 

superdave1984

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I think within the next 5 years or so we will see a dramatic advancement in solar/electric powered cars. Even as much as mass production by the automakers. And lower prices to boot.
 

reno

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I know Makg, the new hydrogen fuel cell car is old tech, but new tech for a car and being released. This is what I am talking about. We are all used to Gasoline, if Butanol was introduced or algae, or somehow magnets powered the vehicle, these are new concepts to power a vehicle. Even if a new power source came about for electricity for our homes. Just about anything will be old news to scientist and such, but I am talking about a renewable energy source that we just have never latched on to.

Hell, HDTV is old news, but new to us now. NTSC was outdated many moons ago. Understand what I am trying to say? I know I don't always type exactly what I mean, but I try.
 

MAKG

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"Magnets powering the vehicle" is, depending on what you mean by that, either impossible or exactly equivalent to a conventional electric vehicle. Games with magnets in motion are a 150 year old perpetual motion scam.

And I'll say it again. Hydrogen IS NOT A POWER SOURCE. It STORES energy made elsewhere. Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are electric vehicles, nothing more. And while they were relentlessly hyped 5-10 years ago, it is far from obvious that they are better batteries than the solid state batteries being developed now. Solid state batteries have improved quite a lot in recent years. But they are NOT power sources.
 

reno

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AAARRRGGHHH!!!!!! Either you or me is the hard headed one! :taunt: I am asking new to the market for the public use. How many or what types of new energy will come out instead of what we are currently using? Like what will replace coal,gas,propane and so on. Superdave understood this, why can't you?:icon_confused:
 

MAKG

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HDTV is new to us now? No, it has been available to consumers for more than 10 years.

What's new is that it is required now, for over-the-air reception.

It sounds like you just haven't been paying attention. Solar cars have been around since the 70s. They are impractical unless Americans can be convinced they don't need two tons of lifted steel to get around. It will never happen. Hydrogen fuel cells can work in principle, but they are just electric cars with batteries. It is NOT a power source.

The part you are missing is that you have to generate more power than you use. Somehow. And you can't generate it by using more energy than you generate. There is no free lunch; the energy has to come from somewhere. And it's not all that hard to estimate.

But I do predict there will be repeated scams. High fuel prices do that. There will be FAR more noise than information. Please be at least a little critical, or you contribute to that problem.
 

reno

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Well making gasoline requires energy just the same, so it is not viable either. But you have strayed from the question. VIABLE or not, how many different types of "Supposible" energy sources will come out from a reliable source? I.E. Chevy,Ford,Dodge,Toyota,our Government and not the internet, not everything is on the internet. I don't spend countless hours filling my head with everything that is on the net, I actually have a life and spend it with my family, hell i can't even build a website and I am told it is easy :icon_twisted:
 

MAKG

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NO NO NO NO NO NO!

Making gasoline does NOT use more energy than it contains unless you make it from CO2 and water. It IS NOT done that way.

The energy in the gasoline came from photosynthesis and geology. Sure it takes energy to distill it, but why on Earth do you think it has to be more energy than the fuel contains? If that were the case, there would be no energy economy at all.
 

KELLY88

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Don't know about car fuel sources entirely, there's a lot of hype on possibilities. I still like solar power if we can make the panels more efficient. Right now they only work around 12% efficiency. If we can get that up to around 90% or hell even in the 50% range we could generate so much power. Electric cars could be a good idea if we could produce electricity more efficiently. Already mentioned solar power and there are other alternatives. I'm a big proponent of wind energy, its genius. So is geothermal in places that it is available. One other theory I've heard is fusion energy. We can't do it yet but I know its been high up on the list as a mass energy alternative to nuclear, which is efficient but incredibly dangerous.
 

MAKG

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Fusion power is the energy of the future, and always will be.

It has been 20 years away for 50 years.

I worked on it over 20 years ago. It should be here by now....

The problem is that charged particles really don't like to get nuclear distances away without something to push them HARD. Like an atomic explosion (but that's uncontrolled). "Micronukes" don't work anywhere near as well as one might think, and have some very obvious security issues. And D-T fusion is every bit as dirty as standard nuclear fission. It makes neutrons. Bad, bad, bad, bad.
 

KELLY88

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Sounds like fusion is the wave of the future if anyone can figure out how to work it. It takes place in stars so it is possible. Just is it possible to contain and harness safely? Somehow I get the feeling that this will be another one of those great "accidental discoveries" with some grad student playing in a lab. It's happened before.
 

MAKG

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Sounds like fusion is the wave of the future if anyone can figure out how to work it. It takes place in stars so it is possible. Just is it possible to contain and harness safely? Somehow I get the feeling that this will be another one of those great "accidental discoveries" with some grad student playing in a lab. It's happened before.
And it supposedly happened here. But it was a case of Reno's problem -- not reasoning through the problem and making serious mistakes as a result. Try looking up "cold fusion."

Grad students don't often make revolutionary discoveries. And given that ARMIES of grad students have tried and failed for fusion power should be a clue that maybe it's not that easy.

It's fairly obvious what needs to be done for fusion to work -- the technical term is emittance reduction; essentially it means reducing the volume of a given sample and its temperature simultaneously. It's been tried left right and center. Don't hold your breath.

And even if it was to work, fusion power is not the clean limitless energy source hyped in the 50s. It is VERY dirty, potentially much worse than conventional fission, as D-T makes neutrons. Many, many, many neutrons.
 

KELLY88

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And it supposedly happened here. But it was a case of Reno's problem -- not reasoning through the problem and making serious mistakes as a result. Try looking up "cold fusion."

Grad students don't often make revolutionary discoveries. And given that ARMIES of grad students have tried and failed for fusion power should be a clue that maybe it's not that easy.

It's fairly obvious what needs to be done for fusion to work -- the technical term is emittance reduction; essentially it means reducing the volume of a given sample and its temperature simultaneously. It's been tried left right and center. Don't hold your breath.

And even if it was to work, fusion power is not the clean limitless energy source hyped in the 50s. It is VERY dirty, potentially much worse than conventional fission, as D-T makes neutrons. Many, many, many neutrons.
I know it isn't easy. If we've been working on it for decades with no results then ya obviously it isn't a simple answer. So where do we go from here? Keep attempting this idea or is there something else we should be shooting for? Forgive me for not knowing all the answers, I'm only 20 years old and don't have any of the upper level sciences under my belt yet, I'm on my way. Was just throwing out some ideas.
 

Simple_serf

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New forms of energy...no.

I do think we will see many more electric conversions sold though. It's cheaper per mile in my location to use electric. I could see a battery pack exchange type of idea used. You pay for a charge and a deposit on the battery pack. We use battery changes on forklifts all the time. Takes about 3 minutes to change out a 2700 lb battery.

Oh, and I see Amtrak doing much better this year. Now if only they would stop their bullshit practice of overbooking.
 

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