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Anyone install a HHO set up on their Ranger yet?


JOSHNAUGUSTA

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Well did it work?

Well JON BOY did it work I have a 4-banger as well and was wondering about this as well. Let us know what ya ended up with.
 


Robocody

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100w to perform hydrolysis my arse. Seeing as how the power usage is completely variable based on what setup you have, this is stupid.... but,

Go try this. All you need is two pencils, a 9v, and a glass of water. Sharpen the two pencils at both ends, and stick them in a glass of water with one end submerged, and one end in the air. Now connect the positive lead from a 9v battery to one of them , and the negative lead to the other. You'll see an HHO generator in action, and low and behold... It's only using 2.7 watts, with very inefficient materials.

Arguably, the wattage may vary, depending on what type of battery you use... but even with a really expensive 1200mah battery, you'll only be using 10.8 watts.

The way I see it, if you can use the excess energy that an alternator produces, or even bleed some of the stored energy from your truck battery to produce a flammable gas, and burn it in your engine with virtually no net loss to the system, Why not?

I've even been toying with the Idea of installing a second, Isolated battery in my truck, just to run an HHO generator... and just plugging it in to a charger when I get home. Five or six extra dollars on the electric bill is nothing compared to the gas I'd save if it actually gave an increase in MPG.



Having said all that, I'm still not convinced it will work, and I'm not about to pour 100+ bucks into an over glorified placebo. If one of you guys legitimately gets this to work, let me know.

-Cody
 

krugford

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I think half the people in this thread need to take a course on "Reading for Comprehension". I said IF your system is using 100 Watts to perform hydrolysis, then that's all the power you'll get out of it in the form of hydrogen and oxygen. Power input will determine the RATE at which you get hydrogen and oxygen out. It's not a magic number of any sort, it was merely an example

The way I see it, if you can use the excess energy that an alternator produces, or even bleed some of the stored energy from your truck battery to produce a flammable gas, and burn it in your engine with virtually no net loss to the system, Why not?
There is no "excess energy" being produced by the alternator. You're either placing a load on it or your not. The more power you draw from the alternator, the harder it is for the engine to turn it over. Energy In - Irreversible Losses = Energy Out.

I've even been toying with the Idea of installing a second, Isolated battery in my truck, just to run an HHO generator... and just plugging it in to a charger when I get home. Five or six extra dollars on the electric bill is nothing compared to the gas I'd save if it actually gave an increase in MPG.
You'd be saving gas and using more electricity. Congratulations, you've made a crude plug-in hybrid. Your energy is now coming from both the gas tank and the power grid. Unfortunately, I don't think a single battery would make a noticeable difference one way or the other. It'd be no different than putting an electric motor in series with your driveline and powering it from that battery, you could take a little of the load off the engine, but not much, unless you had a substantial battery pack on board.
 

Robocody

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I think half the people in this thread need to take a course on "Reading for Comprehension". I said IF your system is using 100 Watts to perform hydrolysis, then that's all the power you'll get out of it in the form of hydrogen and oxygen. Power input will determine the RATE at which you get hydrogen and oxygen out. It's not a magic number of any sort, it was merely an example
No it isn't. You can say all the hubbly--bubbly you like, but the fact is that if this works, we'll be using hydrogen in the same way we are currently using gas... Just without the 300% reaping benefit. Gas is a natural battery. We put very little energy into it, and get phenomenal amounts out. Why couldn't this be the case with another substance? Because you've got it all figured out? It doesn't fit into one of today's scientific categories, so it isn't real? Th world REALLY IS flat?!?!?!




There is no "excess energy" being produced by the alternator. You're either placing a load on it or your not. The more power you draw from the alternator, the harder it is for the engine to turn it over. Energy In - Irreversible Losses = Energy Out.
Unless we maybe change the way we do something? It is more than possible to mount a conventional fixed magnet alternator (exactly like the one sitting out there on my motorcycle) on a car... In which case we could harness all the excess energy produced by the alternator, (You know, the stuff that is usually disbursed through the tires into the ground.) and put it to use doing something. Like Oh, I don't know, breaking the bonds of a stable water molecule, releasing two very unstable substances, and making way for a new chemical reaction called "combustion"? I know it's crazy, but I have a far-fetched Idea that one day the streets will be swarming with machines that actually use this "combustion" to travel through space. WITHOUT HORSES!


You'd be saving gas and using more electricity. Congratulations, you've made a crude plug-in hybrid. Your energy is now coming from both the gas tank and the power grid. Unfortunately, I don't think a single battery would make a noticeable difference one way or the other. It'd be no different than putting an electric motor in series with your driveline and powering it from that battery, you could take a little of the load off the engine, but not much, unless you had a substantial battery pack on board.
Yep. Saving expensive gas. And using cheap electricity. What was stupid about that again? Oh, wait...



Honestly, you keep getting a holier than thou attitude with everyone who has a differing opinion than yourself. You need to consider the possibility that you could be wrong, and that there are other people who are capable of rational though. Some of them even drive ford rangers.
 

krugford

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We put very little energy into it, and get phenomenal amounts out. Why couldn't this be the case with another substance? Because you've got it all figured out? It doesn't fit into one of today's scientific categories, so it isn't real? Th world REALLY IS flat?!?!?!
Just because we don't put a lot of energy into gasoline to get a lot out doesn't mean anything. Gasoline takes millions of years to create deep underground. We are not storing energy in gasoline to be burnt later. That energy comes from the earth, and it took millions of years to charge that battery. All we're really doing is pumping it out of the ground and burning it. The problem comes when you start trying to make your fuel so you can immediately burn it, conservation of energy says that'll never work. Splitting water into it's components so you can recombine them will not yield a net energy gain. That would be running on the same principle as creating gasoline from it's componenets so you can burn it. It simply doesn't work that way in reality. That net energy gain you are looking for has to come from somewhere. The only places you're going to get easy energy come from the sun, wind, geothermal, or oil.



In which case we could harness all the excess energy produced by the alternator.
There is no excess energy produced by the alternator. There are irreversible losses that occur, which you're not going to be able to do anything about, but there's no energy floating off into space that you can magically tap into without putting an additional load on the engine in the first place.


Yep. Saving expensive gas. And using cheap electricity. What was stupid about that again? Oh, wait...
I didn't say it was stupid. There was nothing condescending or sarcastic about my comment on using both electric and gas. I merely pointed out that a single battery wouldn't make much of a difference in daily driving.

I'm merely stating the facts here. If you percieve that as a "holier than thou" attitude, then that's your problem. You seem to be operating on a preconceived notion that anyone who's opinion differs from yours and uses scientific knowledge to support their statements is part of some conspiracy. They're not.
 

outomyelement

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I've got what you're looking for...

Just like the post states, curious to see how you did it. I just puchased the kit to do mine from Hydrogenfrog.com I wanted to get some pointers from you others who have done.


I just finished outfitting my 1996 ranger (2.3L) with a 2 cell HHO Water4Gas units. I've learned to ignore the people that say that it doesn't work, especially when they have no direct hands-on experience with technology. If it doesn't work then don't do it, that's my motto. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion. I've been working in PV for 3 years, and people used to say the same thing about solar power & geothermal...

I started with one cell, a jerry-rigged control module (wires everywhere, nothing permanent) and noticed a 1-2 mpg increase. I know I was tuning it incorrectly and went back and re-read the manual. One cell ran 12V about 1-3A, depending on how much baking soda used. All this information is in the Water4Gas manual, the same system that the police station was using. I never got a chance to re-measure my MPG before putting in a second one...





MAS connection


Connection to the windshield wiper

Not show is the connection to the O2 sensor before the catalytic converter...

I bought the Ford electrical and vacuum service manual from eBay and that helped me locate the correct wires once I figured out how to use it. I had a lot of trial and error with the electrical installation, blown fuses from not properly protecting circuits from grounding (ie. see the photos, the green switch is to turn the cells on, which at one point grounded to the stereo upon removal). I originally used a metal switch from autozone which flaked out after about 20 uses.

I've haven't fully tuned my system yet but you will need a MAS and 02 voltage adjuster. They can be found under the 'water 4 gas' name in eBay for about $30. The MAS knob will adjust the Air/Fuel ratio while the O2 voltage knob will allow you to trick the engine to think that the same amount of fuel is going in (i.e. not allow the truck to richen the mixture, thus negating gas savings). I can tell you that I blew the O2 side of the first unit, by not fusing the control box properly and drove about 250 miles without it. My truck for about a gas tank and a half got worse gas mileage ~ 4-6MPG.

See photos above for my version. If I were to do it again I would probably go with the one that allows you to switch from freeway to city, otherwise you're stuck adjusting at least one knob every time you get in. My version came with 'test ports' to test the O2 voltage. The manufacturer recommended trying to stabilize the Voltage at 450mA (but to not even turn it on once the car has been warmed up for a couple of minutes). It also said that once you figure it out, you shouldn't have to adjust it all the time, and just adjust the MAS knob. I noticed the voltage varied depending on how hard I pressed (or didn't) on the gas pedal.




For the control module, I installed banana plug jacks under the stereo (from radio shack), were wired from left to right: Ground, 12V Power from windshield wiper splice, MAS voltage detector, MAS voltage adjustor, O2 voltage adder. The green switch is to turn the cell on and off. See above. Ignore the black one going across the screen, that's plugged into my 12V solar module on the dash... :)

This was my first trial, and I discovered a few things:

-the standard banana plug connectors worked OK, but my wires weren't long enough, thus the plugs (not shown) kept pulling out of the jacks
-If I had bought the more expensive 'flexi-connectors' instead of the ones which you can stick a screwdriver in to expand, it might have stayed in better. I used the solderless version.


-I decided that I didn't want to plug in 5 separate wires every time i wanted to use the module, but didn't want it permanently connected to my vehicle so...





I left the existing connectors, and spliced in a trailer hitch female connector. I now have the control box attached to the male end. I only needed 5 out of the 6 connectors, so one is blank. It cost me about $30 at Pepboys. I haven't permanently connected the female end because the connector is a bit snug and I'm afraid that it'd might pull or crack the panel that I would want to connect it to. I just have it hanging for now.

I left the original banana jacks and wired multimeter testing wires with banana plugs so I could monitor the O2 voltage sensor, and the battery Voltage that way. I've priced small LCD voltage displays on Ebay for about $18. Eventually I'll put a couple in somewhere permanently. I'll probably eventually remove my stereo alltogether, and just get an amp with a single wire for my ipod anyways. This way I can board out that part of the bezel and put my displays and knobs there.





Notice I knocked the bungee cord loose when I was readjusting the cells and taking the photo... I would recommend fastening it securely to the engine bay. Also I have to insulate the cell next to the engine bay to prevent a short on the positive side. I know -- it's not the cleanest install, but I'm learning as I go along.



From the cell outlets, i vacuum tee'd to an intake port on my manifold. I need to run a hose or two to the air intake to get better suction, and probably better gas mileage. I haven't gotten around to that yet...

See here for more images:

http://picasaweb.google.com/outomyelement/Hydrogen?authkey=lnlfd4gmgYU#

In general, I haven't tested my MPG on the 2 cell unit because i've got to re-wire my control box for the MAS and O2 sensor. Luckily I bought 2, but paid way too much for them. Find a cheap one on eBay. Watch your grounds and electrical shorts. Put in-line fuse protection and safety switches. I'll let you know how things go once i'm done!

Happy HHO'ing!

Kevin
 
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Jonboy

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Well I do have my setup installed and have been tuning it in. I first tried the o2 sensor extender route as I have a MAF on my 92 ranger. I only noticed about a 2-3mpg gain. I figured I can do better so I purchased a wide band control module from ebay and have been adjusting it little by little. As of now I am getting approximately 5-6 mpg more than the previous 19-20mpg. And yes I did calculate it using the mpg calculator on this site. So I am sure to getting dialed in even farther. It will take some time but in the long run I see it as being worth it and I'm entertained at the moment. I dont have near the wiring mess. I've also run a line straight into the intake vacuum port in addition to the one going to the thottle body to hopefully gain while idling. That I dont know yet. I will see during one of those 2 hour traffic pile ups or when winter gets here. I will get pics up as soon as I get my camera back from Olympus I was having some shutter issues. Krugsford you need to relax a bit and let people surprise you with there inginuity instead of basing everything on your college books. I know alot of people that have great book smarts but when it comes to practical application they lose their sense diection and creativity. Stop being so negative and let the folks with a little experience with an HHO setup maybe teach you something if thats possible.
 

outomyelement

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Can you tell me which tuner you're using? I did find a really neato one, but they're sold out or you have to build it yourself...

http://www.madcosm.com/apps/webstore/

It's got a couple of nifty Voltmeters and a PWM included...

The other thing I need to do is add a bubbler/flashback arrester which I don't have right now. I'm going to wait to use it again until I can get one installed...
 
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outomyelement

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He made the wide band version as well?
 

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