Rear main seal brand preference

[Gunfighter97]

Curious what y'all would use if available. I have a felpro kit for my 2.9l short block build. Has a National (made in mexistan) RMS. Only reason I'm suspicious of it is I had pulled a junkyard engine for the interim (wiped cam but oh well) it had a new clutch and a recent looking national seal that had failed and created a pretty major leak. Scum was a lot more recent than the rest of the engine.

Here's what I have:
Two different NOS Ford Made in Germany (unknown age)
Or the made in Mexico National from the Felpro kit

Any other brands I should check out? Just want to use the best thing I can get since its rather buried in there. Thanks!
Edit: to clarify I have two of the same Ford seal.

 

[Gunfighter97]

Ah! There IS one in the short block as well, even though it came with one in the kit. Its marked chk. Taiwanese. It's gonna come out anyhow as I need to pull that bearing cap to verify clear oil galleries in the crank and block.

 

[Kenobi77]

To drop my opinion if you still need it, and for anyone else in the future who may like to have it, I would use Mahle/Victor Reinz gaskets. I used Fel-Pro for my 2.9 rebuild and have to say I don’t have a high opinion of their kit. The head gaskets were about 2-3x the thickness of the original. Don’t get me started on the intake manifold gasket. That alone is enough to make me avoid it. I ended up replacing them with Mahle/VR and everything has been good.

That being said, I haven’t had an issue with my RMS or others. Butttt, if I had to do it again, I’d go with Mahle/VR all the way around where I can because Mahle made the original gaskets for Ford. This is proven by seeing where Mahle is made (Germany) compared to the original parts (West Germany), their shapes/textures/sturdiness compared to other manufacturers and the originals, and the fact NOS head gaskets literally say Victor Reinz.

 

[Gunfighter97]

To drop my opinion if you still need it, and for anyone else in the future who may like to have it, I would use Mahle/Victor Reinz gaskets. I used Fel-Pro for my 2.9 rebuild and have to say I don’t have a high opinion of their kit. The head gaskets were about 2-3x the thickness of the original. Don’t get me started on the intake manifold gasket. That alone is enough to make me avoid it. I ended up replacing them with Mahle/VR and everything has been good.

That being said, I haven’t had an issue with my RMS or others. Butttt, if I had to do it again, I’d go with Mahle/VR all the way around where I can because Mahle made the original gaskets for Ford. This is proven by seeing where Mahle is made (Germany) compared to the original parts (West Germany), their shapes/textures/sturdiness compared to other manufacturers and the originals, and the fact NOS head gaskets literally say Victor Reinz.

Good to know on the gaskets as well! Thank you! As it happens, I have another gasket kit thats by engine tech. The felpro was supposed to be a better quality replacement but such is life I guess. Will check spec of compressed thickness and get something that matches original since my shortblock is in spec and un decked. Whoever assembled this thing ought to be beaten to death with a cudgle. Three backwards conrods and no attempt at all to align oil galleries on the #2 and #3 cam bearings.

 

[2 bronco 11s]

I use the 4.0 Ford seal . However you will need the seal driver. It has a wear ring . Ford was suppose to make another run on them .

 

[Shran]

Man if you have Ford seals, use 'em.

Fel-pro is very hit or miss. It's not like they have bad batches, some of their parts just suck ass and it doesn't matter if you got it 10 years ago or today. Some of the water pump, timing cover and thermostat housing gaskets that I've seen might as well be made out of cereal box cardboard. Some of their others are very good though - their Permadry valve cover gaskets are great.

Some things I will try to use OEM Ford parts if at all possible, timing cover gaskets for 4.0's are one of those things. The waxy green material that they are made out of is superior to everything else out there, at least in my mind.

I've used Engine Tech before, no real complains to speak of, seemed like good quality for the most part. IIRC there are two grades though, the cheap gasket set and the good one...get the good one.

Last, National parts, I have had pretty good luck with them to be honest. In fact I try to seek them out if I simply must buy parts locally. My guess is if one failed on a rear main, there are other issues there or it was poorly installed. The seal itself could certainly have been bad from the get go but I'd look at a scored crank or something like that first.

 

[SenorNoob]

I intentionally used thicker MLS head gaskets on my 4.0 to lower compression slightly and reduce pinging. IDK if it worked or it's my imagination.

 

[Gunfighter97]

I'm up in the mountains at around or just below 5k FASL. I need every bit of compression I can get lmao

The engine tech set is F177. It came with the short block, will look into their kits/numbers to find out more. I had a felpro set for my junkyard engine which ended up a dead end. . . I come from the world of IH V8s and everybody loves felpro there so I figured it would be a better set to use; guess not.

 

[Shran]

That F177 kit looks like it comes with some OK stuff and some cheap stuff.

I like the blue gasket material for timing covers and stuff like that way more than the dark gray cardboard. Cork valve cover gaskets are my last choice... guess I kind of prefer the rubber ones if possible... Permadry style is great too, you just have to plan on checking bolt torque occasionally. The driver's side rear valve cover bolts on my Explorer seem to loosen up often with that gasket style. Cork works acceptably well if you slather it with Indian Head on both sides and don't over tighten the bolts. Rubber is a bit less picky about both of those things.

 

[Gunfighter97]

That F177 kit looks like it comes with some OK stuff and some cheap stuff.

I like the blue gasket material for timing covers and stuff like that way more than the dark gray cardboard. Cork valve cover gaskets are my last choice... guess I kind of prefer the rubber ones if possible... Permadry style is great too, you just have to plan on checking bolt torque occasionally. The driver's side rear valve cover bolts on my Explorer seem to loosen up often with that gasket style. Cork works acceptably well if you slather it with Indian Head on both sides and don't over tighten the bolts. Rubber is a bit less picky about both of those things.

I found a set of VS50312R cover gaskets by felpro. Pretty sure the R indicates rubber as the same number with the C are cork. . . They're cheap, will snag those and look through my two sets to cherry pick some stuff. May go a different route on head/intake gaskets.

 

[Gunfighter97]

That F177 kit looks like it comes with some OK stuff and some cheap stuff.

I like the blue gasket material for timing covers and stuff like that way more than the dark gray cardboard. Cork valve cover gaskets are my last choice... guess I kind of prefer the rubber ones if possible... Permadry style is great too, you just have to plan on checking bolt torque occasionally. The driver's side rear valve cover bolts on my Explorer seem to loosen up often with that gasket style. Cork works acceptably well if you slather it with Indian Head on both sides and don't over tighten the bolts. Rubber is a bit less picky about both of those things.

The dark grey cardboard stuff always seemed a little fragile to me. Are there any places you've used that before where they're prefered or don't really matter? I've always used gasket adheasive on all my drivetrain rebuilds in the past (several transmissions and a transfer case). Any recomendations for my first engine? I expect there's probably more than one type; for coolant and fuel as well as oil? I also keep hearing about copper spray for head gaskets? I thought that was the bandaid stuff for reusing them when you're not supposed to lol

 

[Kenobi77]

So this is approaching the end of my knowledge from experience on the topic, but I’ll give what I can.

Regarding head gaskets and wanting all the compression you can get, my heads were decked .030” for the build and my compression is around 10.5-11:1. The Reinz gaskets have been perfectly fine with no pinging so I wouldn’t hesitate using anything of a similar thickness. When I pulled the FP head gaskets, they were thick enough that my first thought was “these are like cardboard” and wouldn’t be surprised if they took away compression from what would’ve been stock. I have to stress that is my nonexpert opinion, though.
When it comes to using copper spray, all head gaskets I’ve seen have stressed on the packaging not to use it. I’ve never seen much evidence for having to use it unless the gasket is poorly designed or you’re reusing them, which I don’t advise. Most use of copper spray seems to be more of a “feel good” type and not rooted in evidence. It’s not something I’ve ever worried about and I don’t think you have to either.

However with gasket adhesive (I’m assuming you’re talking about RTV), I’ve used it on both sides of a gasket in contact with a fluid. There’s more debate over this than spray on head gaskets, but I’ve had leaks too many times from not putting RTV on both sides of a gasket to avoid it.
I also used Indian Head on the freeze plugs—they’re one thing I DEFINITELY recommend using a sealant on. There’s too many things to go wrong putting them in. Notice I say Indian Head and not RTV: Indian Head is shellac and dries very hard, and not as easy to smear going in. It also is not affected by coolant, so there’s no guesswork as to whether it’ll hold up.

VS50312T (Perma-Dry) are the valve cover gaskets I used and I have nothing but good things to say. They’re expensive but they also have a metal core and should last longer than rubber or cork. You can also reuse them. IMO they’re what I would go with, but it’s more something nice to have and nothing super important. Frankly I think it boils down to how long you’re thinking of having this.

To finish off, I really can’t stress enough how much to AVOID intake gaskets that are of what I call the “Fel-Pro design”. It’s easily identifiable by lacking cork on its ends and being rounded off. The reason for this is that the cork acts as a spacer and helps align the manifold with the coolant passages in the head. Without the cork, the manifold won’t sit correctly, even substituting RTV for it, and you’ll run into trouble.
I see the F177 comes with the proper type of intake gaskets, which makes me happy. My only advice is to put sealant around all ports on the head before installation, because putting that gasket on is a PITA and more than likely going to be imperfect to some degree. I believe Ford also recommended this beginning sometime around the 1989 shop manuals.

 

[bobbywalter]

build specific.

what is needed...what is available in a timely manner.

from preference victor/mahle