Shop messed up.. maybe?

[dogdammit]

So i had this smog shop put whole new exhaust on, freaking $1200 bucks and he didn't put a new O2 sensor on. So i got a check engine light for that and brought it back to him and at the same time had him replace my cam synchro since that was squealing. Another check engine light. Both times same or next day btw. P1336, misaligned CMP/CKP. Dude said there shouldn't be anything to align so I never went back to him after that and just tried to figure it out myself, he also dropped the ball on letting me have my truck back the second time by the next day like i asked. I understand he was chalk full of work but still c'mon. So then I had someone help me try and time it but didn't fix it, although it did help. So now I'm just wondering what can i do with this thing. Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[RobWigglezz]

The p1336 comes from installing the synchronizer incorrectly. Might even be just a tooth off. You're gonna need to get the alignment tool now, get cylinder 1 to tdc compression and reinstall with the alignment tool.

 

[RobWigglezz]

If it runs, it might just be a tooth off. You could remove the sensor on the top and bar the engine over by hand to line up the flag with something. Remove the synchro slightly and try to turn the flag a tooth left or right. It's gonna be by feel so it's not recommended if you haven't messed with something like this before.

You can install a new syncro by noting the position of the old one, and installing the new one the same way. That's what I did and had no issue. That's why I think the shop probably just got it a tooth off but they should have the alignment tool to check their work.

 

[dogdammit]

Remove the synchro slightly and try to turn the flag a tooth left or right. It's gonna be by feel so it's not recommended if you haven't messed with something like this before.

Do you think there's a tool to do this? Like a compass or something?

You can install a new syncro by noting the position of the old one, and installing the new one the same way. That's what I did and had no issue. That's why I think the shop probably just got it a tooth off but they should have the alignment tool to check their work.

I don't think I need a new one now but I used Duralast, is that too cheap for that kind of thing? Something is still squealing but I really hope it's not the same thing.

He said he did 6 engine installs with no issues on that part, but maybe this requires the tool and an install doesn't?

 

[JoshT]

tool for aligning the cam synchro looks like this, but I can't tell you which one of them you need for the 3.0L.

You can buy a kit with all 5 through a local auto parts store for about $30 (O'Reilly, AutoZone). If you can wait a few days for delivery, the same thing can be bought on RockAuto (P/N: DSTCAMKIT) for about $5, maybe $15 after shipping dependiing on location.

 

[RobWigglezz]

Do you think there's a tool to do this? Like a compass or something?


I don't think I need a new one now but I used Duralast, is that too cheap for that kind of thing? Something is still squealing but I really hope it's not the same thing.

He said he did 6 engine installs with no issues on that part, but maybe this requires the tool and an install doesn't?

I wasn't implying you need a new one, just saying how one would install a new one without the alignment tool.

In the picture I sent, I turned the engine over with a wrench untill I got that flag lined up with a notch. Made some marks and removed it. I then slid the new one down so it matched exactly. But when you slide it down, you can feel the gears mesh and want to turn the center so you need to account for that.

I'm guessing the shop that installed yours did it similar but just missed it by one tooth on the gear.

 

[dogdammit]

yeah i bought the tool when my friend timed it, i guess im still off by a tooth. but i was wondering if a compass help be more precise. sounds like there isnt one though. which i was doubtful anyway.
I'll try and time it tomorrow and update y'all on how it goes.

oops... i meant monday.. schedule changed today

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

So, I still need to check my one truck, but I’m pretty sure mine spun. I cranked it till the tab lined up and dropped the new one in to match and it’s not real happy. I should have put it at TDC on #1 cylinder and set it with the tool, which I have, but I didn’t and now I need to fix.

If the old one was bad, dropping a new one in to match its position doesn’t seem to guarantee that it’s in right. Setting at TDC on #1 cylinder and using the tool does. Just make sure you’re on TDC and not 180* out.

 

[dogdammit]

tdc compression correct?

 

[dogdammit]

also how will you fix that because that kind of sounds like my problem

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

also how will you fix that because that kind of sounds like my problem

Put the engine at Top Dead Center (compression stroke), pull the synchro out, put the alignment tool on it, set it back in and tighten the hold down. While I do it I’ll have the battery disconnected so the computer resets. At least if that’s not my problem I’ve now eliminated it as a possible cause.

 

[pentode]

This may fall into the category of "don't try this at home". Caveat emptor. Lil_Blue_Ford already described the correct way to do it so consider this just extra info.

Other than the shop installing the new cam synchro, have you removed it and dropped it back in? It wasn't clear to me from what you said.

If it's where he installed it, and if I were in a stranded somewhere and couldn't do it the right way... When you drop the synchro in, it rotates as its gears mesh with the camshaft. (I can't recall which way, which would be helpful info but doesn't really matter). I'm going to assume the shop thought he had it lined up properly (actually, maybe I should stop here as apparently he didn't think there was anything to line up - but it does run). A guy might consider lifting the synchro out, observing which way it turns, then turn it one tooth farther in the same direction and drop it back in.

Theoretically you could just randomly choose or try both ways, we're talking about ignition timing, not valve timing. If it didn't instantly fire up and run properly, you went the wrong way. Again, I would only do this if there was no feasible way to do it the right way with the tool.

IIRC the computer can "figure out" where it is within something like a +/-15° range, which works out to the width of one tooth.

 

[dogdammit]

This may fall into the category of "don't try this at home". Caveat emptor. Lil_Blue_Ford already described the correct way to do it so consider this just extra info.

Other than the shop installing the new cam synchro, have you removed it and dropped it back in? It wasn't clear to me from what you said.

If it's where he installed it, and if I were in a stranded somewhere and couldn't do it the right way... When you drop the synchro in, it rotates as its gears mesh with the camshaft. (I can't recall which way, which would be helpful info but doesn't really matter). I'm going to assume the shop thought he had it lined up properly (actually, maybe I should stop here as apparently he didn't think there was anything to line up - but it does run). A guy might consider lifting the synchro out, observing which way it turns, then turn it one tooth farther in the same direction and drop it back in.

Theoretically you could just randomly choose or try both ways, we're talking about ignition timing, not valve timing. If it didn't instantly fire up and run properly, you went the wrong way. Again, I would only do this if there was no feasible way to do it the right way with the tool.

IIRC the computer can "figure out" where it is within something like a +/-15° range, which works out to the width of one tooth.

I did try and put the old one back in but I never timed it, so I still had the same issue. If I time it tomorrow and still have a code, I'll just buy the best. Speaking of which I'm not sure what the best brand is? I heard from another shop I took it to (they said they didn't know how to time it anymore since it's been a couple decades) that all the new synchros/sensors are junk.

 

[pentode]

The reason I asked if you had played with it is just to get a sense how far off it might be - but I agree with the others in the thread who have said it's really unlikely it would run if it were off by more than one tooth. I'm pretty sure if you move it one more tooth in the wrong direction, it won't run at all, and one tooth in the opposite direction, the code should go away. The computer is going to be compensating as far as it can trying to make it run properly. By the way, how is it running? I would think there would be signs the timing was off, lack of power, hard starting, pinging maybe.

As far as timing goes - that's really all the timing you do on that engine. You get the synchronizer in the right place and the engine computer handles all the actual timing requirements.

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

Depending on the programming on the computer it may or may not throw a code if it’s out of time and depending on how far off it may just throw the computer into basically limp mode. It may run, but not good.

There may or may not be other problems involved, but best to make sure we eliminate a known problem before looking for more.