Campers For Rangers

[rusty ol ranger]

Heres a gooseneck even a 3.0 ranger could probably handle ok...

 

[91stranger]

There's a video of a suburban or something pushing around a 5th wheel like that. It was quite the maneuverable machine. Keeps the weight over the center of the vehicle which would make towing a lot easier on the tow vehicle. Now-a-days the RV industry is leaning towards small truck and suv towing campers. Campers are getting lighter and trucks are getting stronger. Most RV manufactures don't consider propane or battery for dry weight since you could have a single 12v battery or dual 6v batteries so that would change the weight and they can't factor that in. Same for propane. You could get 20# tanks or 30# tanks. Easier for them to weigh the stuff they can accurately weigh.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

There's a video of a suburban or something pushing around a 5th wheel like that. It was quite the maneuverable machine. Keeps the weight over the center of the vehicle which would make towing a lot easier on the tow vehicle. Now-a-days the RV industry is leaning towards small truck and suv towing campers. Campers are getting lighter and trucks are getting stronger. Most RV manufactures don't consider propane or battery for dry weight since you could have a single 12v battery or dual 6v batteries so that would change the weight and they can't factor that in. Same for propane. You could get 20# tanks or 30# tanks. Easier for them to weigh the stuff they can accurately weigh.

I always wondered though about the ability of the roof to carry and sustain those kind of loads though, espicially if you got hit.

 

[Grumpaw]

I remember some of those from the early/mid 70's. They were promoted before 5th wheels became popular. Back then most people towing campers used large body-on- frame cars and station wagons. Pick up trucks werent too popular as back then they were kind of "spartan" and really not suitable for a family. No SUV's other than the Chevy Suburban , IH Travelall, and the Jeep Wagoneers.
Those roof mount "5th wheel" were made to expand the interior room of a trailer while letting the owners keep their large cars. Remember, back then wagons could carry 8-9 people and still tow a trailer.
Down side was if hit from any side at all, that "roof rail" mounting system would come right off the tow vehicle. They were nothing more than a heavy duty roof rack with a trailer hitch ball..
The "in thing" back then, but now, would never be allowed on the highway.
Grumpaw

 

[don4331]

Don4331 hit upon the Open Dirty Secret from back in the era that slide in pickup campers were mainstream RVs . All the F -250 Camper Specials and C-20 Camper Specials in the real world were overweight, especially on the real axles .

But back in the day " trucks under 1 ton" were rarely weighed , or subject to " No Trucks " restrictions , at least in the US .

And Camper Spec 3/4 tons held up to the abuse reasonably well , at least for occasional camping/ vacation use .

The F-350 Super Camper Special , and GM C-30 Dually actually could be within ratings , but by that point new sales of Slide Ins were waining , and Fifth Wheels were the big growth item in RV's .

I'm not sure the trucks were overweight on rear GAWR but they were overweight on GVWR.

In my collect of stupid stuff, I have a brochure from Ford back in Rusty's era, and there was some "creative" marketing.

F-250 is listed as having a. max payload of 2,640 lbs and b. max GVWR of 8,200 lbs. But the base truck weighs 6,400 lbs - that math doesn't add up. (8,200 - 6,400 = 1,800), so ~3/4 ton was max payload: less if it had 460, auto, a/c, etc, etc. Rear GAWR was 5,300 lbs, so you shouldn't have been exceeding that even with overhang. (Current F-250 has 9,900 lb GVWR and payload + empty weight are less than GVWR)

Similarly F-350 Dually had max GVWR of 9,900 lbs* and scaled 6,800 lbs, so math says the 4,770 lb payload was calculus or some other creative mathematics. (Similarly current F-350 dually has GVWR of 14k lbs.)

I put the leaving out of the standard battery, standard propane as an Open Dirty Secret in the RV industry. ,You can sure sell a lot more trailer for the the extra ~100 lbs on battery/propane on tongue. Yet it rarely prevents you from physically towing the trailer.

What you need is updated version of born free camper:

*Staying under 10k lbs GVWR eliminates any concerns on whether CDL is required.

 

[Curious Hound]

I always thought something like the 1969 Jeep CJ-5 camper with its own axle would be great for my Sport Trac.

www.cj5camper.com

View attachment 31344

Do it!

 

[rusty ol ranger]

Hot cars

.

Brochure from 73. Looks like 6000lbs was doable across the car line...

 

[Biggfoot44]

Since CDL has been invoked , two important numbers to keep in mind :

10,000 lb - Trailer weight for those of us with non- Class A CDL ( regardless of overall Combination Weight ) .

26, 000 lb - Maxium Combination Weight for Muggle drivers , regardless of how the GVW's are split between tow vehicles .


Ie , a non- commercial licensed Class D driver , could legally have a 10,000 gvw tow vehicle , pulling a 16,000 gvw trailer . But for me to switch places and hop in the driver's seat , would be a $10k fine .

Of course the CDL didn't come about until late '80s , and things were different during the golden age of big block V-8's

 

[rusty ol ranger]

The CDL laws do not apply to "private coaches" aka, motorhomes/campers.

A guy without his CDL could go buy a longnose pete, a 53 ft dry van, "convert" it to a camper, paste "not for hire" and/or "private coach" on the tractor and never be bothered.

Also a class D covers anything up to 26,001 GVWR even engaged in commerce, you just need a "chauffer lincense" if youre driving it for profit.

Class C im not sure about. I think its the same as D but allows hazmat. Not sure.

Class B is any single vehicle driven in commerce over 26,001 GVWR. As in, a class B driver can drive a 60,000lb grossing dump truck loaded with gravel legally, but hook a towable generator behind it and its now considered Class A and no longer legal for the B driver to operate.

Class A drivers can drive anything assuming they have proper endorsements.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Somebody without a CDL could indeed buy a long nose Pete and convert into a chassis mount camper, or tow an humongous 5th wheel without a * CDL * . BUT they would still need a NON- CDL License of the appropriate weight class .

Yes, there are still such things . Most commonly seen for VFD Members to operate large fire apparatus , and agricultural , hauling only for their own farms .

The advantages would be way simplier written tests, way simplified practical tests ( driving & pre- trip inspection ). No hours of service rules , no log books .. No DOT physicals , just the same health questions as for muggle " car " drivers license .

 

[JohnnyO]

The CDL laws do not apply to "private coaches" aka, motorhomes/campers.

I asked that question at an RV show last year when standing in a monster diesel-pusher RV since it had air brakes. Salesman said nope, since it's a private coach anyone can drive one. Frankly that concept is a little scary to me. I help drive my bud's 32' unit from Pittsburgh to Charlotte once or twice a year for the NASCAR races and it keeps your butthole tight when going through the twisty bits in WV and VA. His has a 502 Chevy to which he added the full Banks Power Pak (CAI with a K&N, full-length stainless headers, 4'' exhaust) and it will actually pass people going up hills. Yee-haw!

 

[rusty ol ranger]

I asked that question at an RV show last year when standing in a monster diesel-pusher RV since it had air brakes. Salesman said nope, since it's a private coach anyone can drive one. Frankly that concept is a little scary to me. I help drive my bud's 32' unit from Pittsburgh to Charlotte once or twice a year for the NASCAR races and it keeps your butthole tight when going through the twisty bits in WV and VA. His has a 502 Chevy to which he added the full Banks Power Pak (CAI with a K&N, full-length stainless headers, 4'' exhaust) and it will actually pass people going up hills. Yee-haw!

I believe it. Id hate to be payin the fuel bill though. Lol.

.....and yes the coach loophole needs to be closed. They need to have some sort of "recreational class A/B" endorsement test that requires atleast basic skills testing,

This ia exactly why i question these lofty tow ratings on modern diesels. Not so much questioning the truck or manufacturer, but is it really bright to let any idiot with the money loose with a truck capable of towing his 25,000lb god knows what?

But dont you dare drive an econoline delivering flowers without a chauffer. Makes no sense.

 

[Snoranger]

Class A drivers can drive anything assuming they have proper endorsements.

They started manual trans and 5th wheel restrictions a few years ago. If you take your test in an auto with a tag trailer, you're basically limited to a landscapers truck and trailer.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

They started manual trans and 5th wheel restrictions a few years ago. If you take your test in an auto with a tag trailer, you're basically limited to a landscapers truck and trailer.

Oh yeah, i had heard about the auto trans restriction. Forgot about that. Didnt know about the 5th wheel thing though.

 

[don4331]

Saskatchewan closed the "recreational vehicle" exemption waiver a few years back - now if you're towing >4,500kg/have air brakes, you need the appropriate endorsement(s).

Back to Johnny's CJ-5 style camper:

Would adding the camper with an axle make his Sport Trac a 3 axle vehicle?​

Would weigh on "camper axle" still count against GVWR of Sport Trac (the camper/truck is one continuous vehicle)?​

Does the camper axle need to be braked? Does it need separate controller?? It gets really 'grey' on whether camper axle is "trailer weight" whether brakes are needed or not and if you are towing a trailer how the combination weighs should be added up.​

​

The interpretation from the engineer at Alberta Ministry of Transportation I got was:

If the axle on camper didn't steer, it was a tag axle and still counted against GVWR of truck, so unless I was exceeding tire limits, would actually hurt my payload capacity. And would become class 3 vehicle, for which I would need the appropriate license.​

If axle did steer, then it was a trailer but not a 5th wheel, so I couldn't tow a 2nd trailer per Alberta legislation- i.e. no jet ski/snowmobile trailer.​

​

Basically, if I wanted to haul a camper and tow something get an F-250.​

​

Note: CDL requirements are slight different north of the 49th.