Star head bolts...

[rusty ol ranger]

What is the purpose of these? Really? I have never seen one used where a phillips or hex head wouldnt have done the job.

Seriously, they are THE dumbest thing anyone has ever thought of. My master cylinder cap on my quad is held on with them, so what should of been a 5 minute brake bleed job turned into a 45min, an hour ordeal because one of the stupid star heads rounded off....

.....and you better have a damn easy out handy, because unlike hex heads you cant just fire up your good friend vice grips (or, in a dire situation, a pipe wrench) and turn that sumbitch out. Nooooo sir. Gotta do it the right way.

AND THEY ALWAYS ROUND OFF. EVERY DAMN TIME! Or, if there really stubborn, just bend the tabs on the star socket like a big middle finger right in your face.

Atleast when phillips strip you can *usually* still get them out with obscene amounts of pressure or even hammering a flathead down in it.

Which brings me to my next question.

Why the hell arnt flatheads more common? They never strip, round, or whatever, and if you dont have a screwdriver handy a dime or quarter and a pair of pliers makes a good subsitute.

/rant over.

 

[Ranger850]

flat head screwdrivers suck. a dime works better almost every time. lol.
the point of the torques bit is the same principle of a 12 point socket. more contact points to spread the load. you can always get a dremel and cut an X into the head and make it a Phillipshead.lol

 

[Curious Hound]

Sorry, Rusty. Maybe your day will get better.

Ya know what’s worse? I went to replace the lights on my utility trailer a few weeks ago. Looked like torx screws. Torx bits wouldn’t fit. I finally realized they were 8 point stars instead of 6. Had to order bits and hope I ordered the right size.

 

[adsm08]

I'm going to answer the last point first. I strip more flat-head screws than anything else, assuming rust is not involved. Flatheads started dying and Philips heads taking over when power tools started to become more common. With a flat head screw you have a lot of trouble with a drill or screw gun. If you aren't perfectly centered it doesn't spin in and out well, but there is nothing to keep you centered. Philips, posi-bit, and torx all keep you centered so you can use a power tool. Might not seem important to an old-timer who just works on his own stuff, but when you are a flat-rate tech pulling a dash and you have to remove and reinstall a few dozen screws that 10 to 30 seconds saved per screw really adds up.

The problem with flat-head, Philips-head, and torx is the same. They are torque limiting designs. That means that they are actually designed to fail and start slipping if you apply excessive torque. In theory that means you can't over-tighten them. In reality what happens is as soon as they start rusting and you need more than the specified torque to break them free they strip.

Torx bits do the torque limiting job a little better than Philips without breaking, although they are harder to get out once they do. The real draw of them for the manufacturers are that they are easier for the assembly robots to use.


I will say, 90% of the torx bolts I have stripped did so because I was not using the correct sized bit. Some of those sizes are very close together and it is easy to think the next smaller one is correct, especially if you have an incomplete set. A lot of the cheaper sets exclude the T27 and T47, but have the T25 and T45, so if you don't know about the 27 and 47 it is easy to think the 25 or 45 is the correct bit.

 

[Dirtman]

Please no one tell rusty about security torx bits...

 

[rusty ol ranger]

I'm going to answer the last point first. I strip more flat-head screws than anything else, assuming rust is not involved. Flatheads started dying and Philips heads taking over when power tools started to become more common. With a flat head screw you have a lot of trouble with a drill or screw gun. If you aren't perfectly centered it doesn't spin in and out well, but there is nothing to keep you centered. Philips, posi-bit, and torx all keep you centered so you can use a power tool. Might not seem important to an old-timer who just works on his own stuff, but when you are a flat-rate tech pulling a dash and you have to remove and reinstall a few dozen screws that 10 to 30 seconds saved per screw really adds up.

The problem with flat-head, Philips-head, and torx is the same. They are torque limiting designs. That means that they are actually designed to fail and start slipping if you apply excessive torque. In theory that means you can't over-tighten them. In reality what happens is as soon as they start rusting and you need more than the specified torque to break them free they strip.

Torx bits do the torque limiting job a little better than Philips without breaking, although they are harder to get out once they do. The real draw of them for the manufacturers are that they are easier for the assembly robots to use.


I will say, 90% of the torx bolts I have stripped did so because I was not using the correct sized bit. Some of those sizes are very close together and it is easy to think the next smaller one is correct, especially if you have an incomplete set. A lot of the cheaper sets exclude the T27 and T47, but have the T25 and T45, so if you don't know about the 27 and 47 it is easy to think the 25 or 45 is the correct bit.

I have never in my life stripped a flathead. Even with a drill. Luck maybe? I dont know.

Personally id be happiest if everything used a damned wing nut.

Please no one tell rusty about security torx bits...

I know about them. Never dealt with them. Im sure they would meet a drill pretty quickly.

 

[Curious Hound]

Please no one tell rusty about security torx bits...

We just have to convince him that he has to drill his own holes in the end of regular bits so they fit in the security fasteners.

 

[Curious Hound]

I hate flat-heads. Someone else has always stripped them out before I get there

 

[Dirtman]

If I walked passed a truck in a parking lot held together with wing nuts I would not be able to prevent my inner child from taking it apart and leaving it in nicely organized pile for the owner...

 

[Ranger850]

I have never in my life stripped a flathead. Even with a drill. Luck maybe? I dont know.

I hate flat-heads. Someone else has always stripped them out before I get there

I've stripped flatheads going IN. ?

 

[Curious Hound]

I've stripped flatheads going IN. ?

So YOU’RE the one....

 

[Dirtman]

These come pre-stripped to save time...

 

[rusty ol ranger]

These are the best IMO. My old cub is full of them. Cresent wrench friendly and IF they round, hammer a socket on and go nuts.

 

[Grumpaw]

Many are not aware that you can use an allen wrench to remove a torx fastener. As an example, a T-15 can be removed with a 1/8 inch hex wrench, a T-25 uses a 3/16 inch, a T-30 uses a 1/4 inch hex.
There are many conversion tables available via google. Just google hex wrench to torx conversion.
I printed off a few many years ago and keep copies in all my vehicles, so there's no guess work.
So, if you strip a torx out, before you get the vice grips out, try a hex.
Also, as one who has used torx on vehicles and motorcycles for more years than I care to admit, a word of advise....when it comes to torx and hex fasteners, DO NOT USE CHEAPIE TOOLS!!!! Those are the main reason for the torx and hex for stripping out The tolerences on cheap tools are really bad. Spend the $$$for some quality stuff, like Snap On. I have a set that I've had for over 20 years, and they still fit the proper torx size like a glove. A cheap tork or hex tool may be undersize by a few thousands of an inch, but that's enough to make it loose and strip out your fastener.
Grumpaw

 

[rusty ol ranger]

Many are not aware that you can use an allen wrench to remove a torx fastener. As an example, a T-15 can be removed with a 1/8 inch hex wrench, a T-25 uses a 3/16 inch, a T-30 uses a 1/4 inch hex.
There are many conversion tables available via google. Just google hex wrench to torx conversion.
I printed off a few many years ago and keep copies in all my vehicles, so there's no guess work.
So, if you strip a torx out, before you get the vice grips out, try a hex.
Also, as one who has used torx on vehicles and motorcycles for more years than I care to admit, a word of advise....when it comes to torx and hex fasteners, DO NOT USE CHEAPIE TOOLS!!!! Those are the main reason for the torx and hex for stripping out The tolerences on cheap tools are really bad. Spend the $$$for some quality stuff, like Snap On. I have a set that I've had for over 20 years, and they still fit the proper torx size like a glove. A cheap tork or hex tool may be undersize by a few thousands of an inch, but that's enough to make it loose and strip out your fastener.
Grumpaw

I was useing a harbor freight special. So maybe thats what my issue was....

I thought about tryin an hex after it stripped but of course couldnt find my set.

Either way. There replaced with.....flatheads now