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Need a welder...help me decide!


Hagan

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I can use an oxy-acetelyne torch/welder. I have one and can weld basically tin cans together and I have no further interest.

I'm still deciding whether I should get a 220 or a 110. My budget might be getting bigger so I guess I'll see! I'm getting a Hobart either way.
 


lil_Blue_Ford

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Are you talking about Brazing? That is what i was always told it was.
No, I'm talking straight-up old-school torch welding. You can braze with a torch (and a LOT of people still do that) but very few actually weld. You have to use oxy-act to weld with but you can braze with oxy-propane or oxy-mapp gas. Brazing is where you do not heat the metal enough to melt it and weld it together, just hot enough for a soft filler rod to melt and flow to join things.
 

kcm1582

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Are you talking about Brazing? That is what i was always told it was.
Nope brazing is very similar but the difference is that to weld you heat the base metals till they melt and flow together, where as with brazing you heat the metals to a much lower temperature and add a bronze filler rod that essentially acts like hot glue for metal.


As for a welder, for general purpose work a 220v mig will never let you down.
 

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Oxy-act weld that I did on my ladder rack for my F-150. I later continued the weld all the way around.
 

macx

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Well hopefully I can contribute something meaningful here. I'm a bare azz newbie - this is my first post! BUT I've been a CWI (Certified Welding Inspector) certified by the AWS (American Welding Society) for 20 years, so conceitedly think I know "a thing or 3" about welding.

AND I own a 220 mig welder.

What's said above is true - a stick welder is cheaper than a mig. But it is also more difficult to use. And a weld that looks like a pigeon deposited it is NOT strong or stronger for any reason.

A wire feed welder (of which MIG is one version - MIG is a small diameter solid wire that uses an external shielding gas, for carbon steel it's usually CO2 or a mix or mainly CO2) is small, light weight, not quite as easy to set up as a stick welder, but is much easier to use if you're an inexperienced welder. The only thing with MIG is that the weld penetration is not very deep, being it was specifically developed for sheet metal and similarly thin light gauge metals - that is besides the cost of the gas cylinder long term lease and the refill cost AND the cost of the regulator and hose setup.

The other version of a wire feed machine is flux core - called that because the wire is hollow and contains the flux inside. Powdered flux inside the wire turns to gas when it is heated in the electric arc. It shields the weld from absorbing oxygen just like the external gas shield in MIG that you have to get from a tank of CO2 etc.

It isn't as "pretty" or slick looking as MIG because it does have a thin coating of flux on the outside of the weld, but you can easily chip that off if you desire. It has the same strength as MIG and penetrates quite a bit deeper, of course depending on the amps and volts. So it's much more suitable for somewhat thicker metal. In fact, all the skyscrapers in the country are welded with flux core, whether in a fab shop or up in the air on the building framework.

OK, back to basics. #1 advice - get a good name brand machine. I bought a Lincoln (and by ALL MEANS get a 220 volt welder - use a dryer or electric stove plug that matches the plug on the cord - takes something like 25 or 30 amps on the 220 breaker - one "leg" off each side of the input into your house - ea "leg" being 110 volts)) so you can weld some decent thickness metal. I built a 36' clear span carport with my Lincoln 220 volt - welded together 1/4" thick 6" square tube steel and it has withstood 75+ mph winds.

Electric current and voltage control are EVERYTHING in a wire feed welder. Yes, an off-brand might be OK, and it might not. Lincoln, Miller, Hobart are the major name brands you can absolutely trust. After looking at all 3 I chose the Lincoln cuz it's easy to use, foolproof simple directions, and CONSISTENT - weld after weld. AND you can get it serviced / repaired / parts at any decent welding supply place that sells Lincoln.

Nearly all common "carbon steel" has a tensile strength of 60,000 psi. Your common weld filler metal, whether stick (SMAW or shielded metal arc welding), MIG (metal inert gas), flux core, or even TIG (tungsten inert gas - you don't want to go there unless you're an experienced welder and have a lot of money to spend for a machine) is 70,000 tensile strength.

You can buy any brand filler metal that says it meets AWS or ASME standards forcarbon steel welding. Flux core would typically be E7011T-1. The E stands for electrode, the 70 stands for tensile strength, the T stands for tubular (flux cvore) and the 11 & -1 stands for all position welding. I most often buy mine at Lowes. It is not legal to label it like that unless it does meet AWS and ASME standards.

Pardon me - yeah, I'm getting long winded, but I LOVE this subject! (And the Coors Light doesn't exactly make me reticent, either :)

Shop around - you should be able to find a good quality name brand machine that fits within your budget, especially if you go flux core and don't have to take out a lease on a CO2 tank.

One other thing - actually 2. PRACTICE - and take a class at a VoTech. There's lots more to making a sound weld than meets the untrained eye.

Welding is FUN - you can make SO many wonderful things!

Oh, yes, one last thing. Get an "instant on" welding lens. That's the kind you can see thru until you strike the arc, then it goes dark. That way you can start exactly where you want to instead of leaving "tracks" all over your piece of metal unti lyou find the groove.

Any questions, macx351@yahoo.com

PS - yes, you actually can do major welding with an oxy-acetylene torch! I used to be night shop foreman for a very large asphalt paving company where we took care of well over $100 million worth of heavy equipment and trucks, and actually built a lot of the equipment. We would actually weld heavy gauge thick exhaust pipe to cast steel (very difficult to weld) turbine outlets on big diesels with oxy-acetylene and COAT HANGERS! NEVER broke or cracked even with the extreme heat and pressure from the turbo. But, like anything else, you gotta know what you're doin.

And ENJOY WELDING !!
 
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Hagan

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Still haven't bought a welder. I'm still deciding on what to get...and I'm looking at used welders.

I found a Miller 175 for $600... Not sure if its a decent price or not...
 

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I learned gas welding in aviation maintenance school. It's easy because it's slow. It's hard because it's tough to learn different thicknesses with various gas settings. The easiest to learn is stick welding with a 240V unit. It's useful from maybe 1/16th to 1/2inch. All you have to adjust is the amps.

A small 120V MIG is easy, if you have it set up right. The feed tension and the feed rate are the most important thing. If it is set up correctly, it's as easy as drawing a line with chalk. It makes a pretty weld sitting up on top of the surface. To use a 140V welder, you need to deeply groove the parts and make a number of solid passes to fill it in. A 240V welder can blast a weld between 1/2" plate in one pass. A 140V welder, MIG style, is great for exhaust pipe. I use mine for things like that. Mostly what I weld is around 1/4" and I use the big stick.
 

Hagan

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Thats nice to know!

Anyway, I found a deal and bought it! I got a brand new Hobart Handler 210! It was STILL in the box when I bought it and it was never opened. I picked it up for $500. I was kinda worried it would be full of rocks when I opened it but everything is there and packaged. I opened the welder up and looks like everything is there! I still need a tank and some gloves but I can't wait to try it out! It has a 110/230 option so you can use either!
 

Heavyfire14

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Thats nice to know!

Anyway, I found a deal and bought it! I got a brand new Hobart Handler 210! It was STILL in the box when I bought it and it was never opened. I picked it up for $500. I was kinda worried it would be full of rocks when I opened it but everything is there and packaged. I opened the welder up and looks like everything is there! I still need a tank and some gloves but I can't wait to try it out! It has a 110/230 option so you can use either!
you lucky sob :icon_thumby:
 

Hagan

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I know crazy! I just plugged it in and it works!:)

Now time to do some welding!!!
 

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i know its a little late, but this looks like a good deal to me
 

kcm1582

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If it works its a good deal
 

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i learned to weld with dad's 220V lincoln 60-225 amp electrode arc welder. i have done tig and mig welding before and ive tried my hand at gas welding & brazing. by far for haevy stuff i prefer the old lincoln. tig is great for new stainless exhuast parts (used to work somewhere where catalytic converters and exhaust manifold were made) mig is great for small fab work and is pretty easy to do. gas welding/brazing? i tried it, not so good at it. maybe just not enough practice with it. my dad is very good with it though. ive welded on mower decks with the lincoln (its the only welder we have at the farm) and though its harder to start/maintain the arc at lower settings, it is possible. penetration is great, and as far as the excess bead, thats why they make grinders. welding is about the penetration of the two (or more) metals your joining, not the amount of "bird poop" on the top. 6013 is my elctrode stick of choice, there are others of course, depends on what your doing. ive seen used lincoln 225's go for $50 before. if i had a place for one where im at, id have one of my own.
 

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