give this idea a shot

okay this may work better on an explorer or bronco but ive considered it w/ a camper shell on a ranger, crazy but by far original. everybody has thought about the duratec 30, 35 or 37 swap then they find out it wont bold up to a tranny. maybe you dont want the duratec style maybe you found another style engine you want to try but its in a front wheel drive car. well try this one on for size...(if my other mods that im asking around about arent worth doing i may try this myself) take a duratec 30, 35 or 37 engine and tranny out of a donor vehicle (or whatever front wheel drive vehicle you want to use), remove the engine, tranny, and transfer from your sploder, bronco, or ranger. cut out a section of the bed or somewhere in the backseat area from behind the seats to almost the rear axle. (like i said crazy but original) install and fabricate mounts for the engine and transaxle to run inline w/ the driveshafts close to the center of the vehicle, then fabricate the driveshafts from the difs to fit the outputs of the transaxle. now you have a 4wd (or two if you only use one side of the tranny) engine and transmission going to gear reduction at the difs, perfect for lifted rock crawling applications or mud riding. you have plenty of room to work on the engine/tranny and the gas tank can be replaced w/ a fuel cell where the old engine used to be or behind the engine in the remainder of the bed, depending of how you want to distribute your weight now that the vehicle weight is now centered or rear off center like an italian sportscar. any thoughts on this one? (or am i just stupid w/ too much time spent on the toilet?) in all actuality, if you look at a monster truck, its basically the same setup on a fiberglass body and rollcage, which is kind of what inspired this thought.

If im understanding this right the problem i would see is with the trans/diff setup. Open Diffs on FWD cars work just like the ones on RWD trucks. Spinning whatever tires have the least traction.

So in a 4wd application it would send power to either the front or rear but not both at once, unless you weld the spider gears.

later,
Dustin

i see your point but if im not mistaken the computer can be setup to lock the limited slip clutch to 50/50 on the traction control computer or you can also trick it by grounding the sensors to make it look like no wheel is free wheeling hence full split power to both wheels/shafts. on modern traction control systems of cars they use wheel speed sensors to sense if a wheel is freewheeling and send the power to the other wheel w/a limited slip differential, if the wheelspeed sensors show that they are moving the same speed the power is never diverted. some cars also do this while cornering as well using other inputs that you can simply bypass or set the computer to read 0. i may be wrong but if im not mistaken that is how it works and power is sent to both wheels on a lot of fwd cars.

Those crazy russian guys you see mudding in those comps on Youtube and streetfire use really small FWD cars stuffed onto tube chassis with FWD powerplants turned sideways with the spiders welded. Yea it does work but it seems like a shit ton of work for something that can be made much much easier with alittle less bling factor

It would lack a low range... which is essential for a lot of offroading.

with a super deep gearset like that of a set off rockwells in the 6.71:1 ranger or whatever they are should get it done. also some sort of a range box could be adapted. but at the end of all this what the damn hell is the point. Or what could it do a truck built from normall parts not be able tto do? with alot less money? and less headaches?

traction control works in conjunction with the ABS, applying the brakes to a wheel that is slipping, thus forcing the gripping wheel to turn. there are no limited slip differentials involved and certainly not any "adjustable" limited slips

one problem is going to be that the axles on a FWD platform exit behind (as normally oriented) the engine. placing the FWD package sideways with the axles near the middle of the vehicle is going to place the rest of the engine and transmission way to one side or the other of the vehicle. the end result is one side will be much heavier (by a few hundred pounds at least). also, if your truck isnt wide enough, you may end up with an exhaust manifold or something sticking out the bedside.

this setup will not afford any kind of 2wd selectability. it will be more comparable to "AWD" which is not suited for off-road use.

you could weld the spiders inside the FWD transmission to achieve a true all-time 4WD (front and rear axles locked together)...but then you would have to unlocked the hubs to "shift" between 2wd and 4wd. the front diff would be powered all the time.

and you guys are missing an essential fact; there is a differential inside the FWD transaxle. its usually in the range of 3.5:1 or so. the low range in the transfer case used in the rangers is only 2.7:1...so you would actually have a very good low range with this setup. the problem is you cant shift out of it....meaning that with a 31" tire and 3.73 axle gears you will be turning 6,300 RPM at 60MPH in overdrive...this is a problem.

"converting" most FWD engines to RWD is usually a matter of flipping the intake manifold around and fabricating motor mounts. ive seen the 3.0 duratec converted to RWD and it works quite well (not to mention, it was USED in RWD from the factory in the lincoln LS's for a while). it has the standard duratec bolt pattern which means it should bolt right to a 2.3 duratec trans if your looking for a ranger application.

its a neat idea...but i dont think it would be less work than just plopping the FWD engine into the RWD platform the "right" way.

Traction control works like wheel brakes on a tractor.

When you get one wheel spinning you brake that wheel so the other one will spin...but its still not guranteed that one will have traction.

later,
Dustin

the reason i posted the idea was for rock crawling purposes or building a replica monster truck, by no means would you be putting it on the road. 60mph wide open is plenty fast enuff for a rock crawler providing that your usually moving in the 15 to 40mph range anyway for the most part. the other would be going thru deep mud bogs that require a lot of power and low end 4wd. other than that its not very practical, just fig i would thro the idea up in the air and see how ppl would respond. by adjustable limited slip i was referring to a variable center differential or an automatic yaw control found in all wheel drive sportscars and mitsu lancer evos, the ayc when steered diverts the power to the outermost drive wheel to help it steer. the variable center dif is used in the sportscars to change the transfer power output from 60/40 to 90/10 to make the car act more like a rear wheel drive car w/ the slightly added traction assistance of the front wheels being driven. (i helped work on drift cars for a short time...lol, trucks are fairly new to me even tho ive owned/maintained/slightly modified my trk for yrs.)

i have little experience in high end imports, so i cant speak for the system they use. but fords traction control is nowhere near that fancy. as i said before, it relys on the ABS module to apply braking force to the wheel or wheels it senses slipping. it works effectivly enough, but i cant imagine the amount of work it'd take to swap that system into a truck. youd need the traction control module, abs module, abs motor, wheel sensors, wiring harnesses, and probably more.

if this is a pure rock crawling vehicle, then i think you'll once again run into gearing problems. its not uncommon for rock crawlers to have over 100:1 final gearing. given the first gear and 2 differential ratios of this setup, i dont think your going to break 60:1....which isnt terrible...but its not great.

plus you still have the weight distribution problem...which would be very awkward while trying to crawl off-camber through the rocks.

good points and dually noted, like i said just tossing an idea in the air, appreciate all the feedback.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=633445

read through this...the guy did exactly what youre saying. For his 7 y/o daughter, its a mini buggy with a honda v-tec engine run in-line with yota axles.

also search youtube for "draggbody" and he has lots of vids of her wheeling it.

Gotta_gofast said:

It would lack a low range... which is essential for a lot of offroading.

Click to expand...

remember on a FWD engine, whatever comes out of the tranny is the final drive. Whatever RPM the CV shafts are spinning the wheel is spinning.
So say you ran those shafts into a 4.10:1 rear diff, that would be like running around in 4 low...so the complete opposite of your statement would be the case...you wouldnt have a high range.

pud said:

remember on a FWD engine, whatever comes out of the tranny is the final drive. Whatever RPM the CV shafts are spinning the wheel is spinning.
So say you ran those shafts into a 4.10:1 rear diff, that would be like running around in 4 low...so the complete opposite of your statement would be the case...you wouldnt have a high range.

Click to expand...

i was just thinking that same exact thing. for example, if you were to use the engine and trans out of my car, and the axles from my truck, you would end up with a 55:1 final crawl. compared to my (relatively) stock truck at a 37:1 final crawl. not exactly impressive, but still not bad. the problem though would be that most fwd cars are pretty light duty. small engines, not a whole lotta torque, small clutches, etc etc. for a small buggy it would be cool, it would be a lot of fun to design and build. it wouldnt however be very practical.