What did YOU do today?

[holyford86]

So, I completely agree with you guys on its a neutral problem most likely and somewhere between the power company and the breaker panel.

As to the panel/subpanel, there is a panel and subpanel next to it. I’m no novice electrician, I immediately started isolating things and trying to work through the problem because an issue with neutral was my first expectation. Of course when I couldn’t isolate a problem, I then started checking everything, had a text conversation with @holyford86 and a phone conversation with a local contractor that I’m good buddies with.

I did find a pair of circuits in the subpanel that were ohming across the hots, and they are both short basement runs.

And hang on while I finish this post

I know you're still working on the post (and issue) but the thing that told me to check the neutrals when you were describing the issues reminded me of the issues I had when I moved into my house.

I would get horrible voltage sag when any load over a few amps was operating, to the point that my ups would trip when the fridge came on. It would dip below 90v from the outlet at times.
The power company is going around upgrading meters and replacing meter boxes as necessary, they did mine in May and all of the issues went away after that. The only things that worked perfectly the whole time was anything 240v.
The house is a manufactured home from the early 70s with copper wiring and seems to be fine from a wiring standpoint now that I've also had the federal pacific panel replaced as well.

 

[Curious Hound]

Here is the kicker. Tree company came through trimming right about when the problem started. Also, I don’t know if it happens all the time, but the wife insists it does, and I witnessed this happen, usually when a car would drive past, the lights would flicker like a strobe light…

It might be wise to have a good licensed, qualified, heavily experienced electrician come and do some checking.

Do the problems happen if you isolate (turn off) the subpanel? What are your voltage readings from leg to leg, leg to neutral, other leg to neutral, leg to ground, other leg to ground and ground to neutral at the main breaker panel? What are those same readings if you turn off the main breaker so there is no load? In your main breaker panel, do you see a green screw electrically connecting your neutral bus bar to the metal panel itself?

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

It might be wise to have a good licensed, qualified, heavily experienced electrician come and do some checking.

Do the problems happen if you isolate (turn off) the subpanel? What are your voltage readings from leg to leg, leg to neutral, other leg to neutral, leg to ground, other leg to ground and ground to neutral at the main breaker panel? What are those same readings if you turn off the main breaker so there is no load? In your main breaker panel, do you see a green screw electrically connecting your neutral bus bar to the metal panel itself?

Subpanel has zero effect. Sparking at the ground could not be isolated to any circuit.

When only lights were on and no electric motors, everything would stabilize to about 122.9v on each leg and almost exactly double that leg to leg. Turning off the main would get the same reading. Any electric motor would cause the imbalance. Oddly enough, switching which leg the furnace was on, despite the furnace not being on, switched which leg got drawn down. I’m thinking that circuit needs investigating but isolating that circuit did not resolve anything. Well, it did balance the amp load across the legs.

Main panel is bonded. Sub panel is not. All screws and wires are tight.

 

[Curious Hound]

So, does the wire from your grounding rod go to the main breaker panel or the meter can? The more details you supply, the more this sounds like a bad neutral connection/bonding/grounding problem.

 

[Curious Hound]

Jon, the more I think about this, the more I feel like you need to get the electric company out there to verify the neutral connection at the top of the service mast and at the transformer. If I knew exactly where you are measuring voltages and what the readings are, I would know for sure. It sounds like you have probably verified everything you can. This is not something you want to linger. It can result in destroyed appliances, computer, electronics, etc.

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

So, does the wire from your grounding rod go to the main breaker panel or the meter can? The more details you supply, the more this sounds like a bad neutral connection/bonding/grounding problem.

Wire from the new grounding wires goes to the main panel. There’s also a temporary ground run over to the pole ground that the electric company put in. I think there’s also a ground running to the meter can. I’ll have to check.

Jon, the more I think about this, tje more I feel lile you need to get the electric company out there to verify the neutral connection at the top of the service mast and at the transformer. If I knew exactly where you are measuring volategs and what the readings are, I would know for sure. It sounds like you have probably verified everything you can. This is not something you want to linger. It can result in destroyed appliances, computer, electronics, etc.

That’s kind of where I’m at with it. There’s a couple things in the house that need addressed like there’s still a couple old breakers that I’m questioning and there’s the furnace run plus the two short basement circuits. Easy enough to pull some wire and resolve. Isolating those out doesn’t resolve the problem and it leaves me with the feeds coming from the meter socket to the panel (short runs of what looks like 2/0 copper in a sort of THHN type flavor with they typical jacket wrinkles when you flex it and leave it like that for years), meter socket, or power company.

I can’t help but wonder if the tree guys damaged something and the power company hasn’t found it yet.

I haven’t popped the meter to check the socket yet. I checked every combination that I could think of in the panel, each leg to ground, each to neutral, leg to leg, pulled out breakers and inspected the bus bars, shut off breakers and checked for backfeed, checked for cross feed between breakers, checked amps on each leg, pulled the temporary ground jumper between the new ground rods/wire and the pole ground (get about 5.5 volts between those). Something is definitely way out of whack and I’m not convinced that it’s in the house.

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

@Curious Hound , my contractor buddy that I was on the phone with last night is certified and does more electrical than I do. I was running through things with him on the phone and he’s also of the opinion that it’s not in the house. There’s probably a 20’ run of underground from the pole, the power company dug some of that up and supposedly replaced the wire. Aluminum wire, black with yellow stripe. Sounds pretty standard but I didn’t inspect it in the dark and snow

 

[sgtsandman]

No dice on restoring the original OS on the old computer. I'm guessing it doesn't like the solid state hard drive that is in the computer now. The original was starting to show signs of failure. So it had gotten replaced before the computer stopped working. I put Linux back on it and set it up enough to run and stored it away for now.

 

[scotts90ranger]

Yesterday stopped and got a drywall sander from Harbor freight so I can use it tomorrow... then I went and hung out with friends until the wee hours of the morning, good times.

Today after waking up late (when you get home at 3:40AM you tend to sleep until 10am...) then heading to the inlaws for turkey day I got home and continued on the drywall project. I started off putting the rest of the screws in place then went around with a normal screwdriver and made sure they were all deep enough for mudding tomorrow. After I got the first room done I put up the last two sheets of drywall I had, need to get another sheet to finish half the bathroom which is where I can get to without figuring out what I want to do with the plumbing...

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Finally got the combine back together, dumped some fuel in it and even put the head on it.

And then the right brake quit working.

 

[Curious Hound]

Finally got the combine back together, dumped some fuel in it and even put the head on it.

And then the right brake quit working.

Just plan ahead for a left turn every time you stop.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Just plan ahead for a left turn every time you stop.

If it wasn't 10 miles from the field it would be no biggie. You rarely use them in the field... kinda handy to woe a 13k house flopping its way down th3 road.

 

[sgtsandman]

I'm a step closer to going Postal. I got an email to provide info for a background check. I figure it shouldn't be a problem. I've held a security clearance with the Air Force for decades and had flightline access at the Pittsburgh airport several times in the past. Not to mention multiple background checks for my concealed carry licenses. Easy peasy.