What did YOU do today?

[Sudo]

That sounds like a bad/loose neutral.

I was going to say the same..........

 

[Sudo]

is it the main panel or a subpannel. Keep in mind....You can't have a bonding screw in the subpanel and the neutrals HAVE TO BE SEPERATED FROM THE GROUND WIRE'S . Meaning , the Neutral Wires can't be in connection with the sub breaker panel.

 

[SenorNoob]

Sounds exactly like what happened when my parents' house had a bad neutral between the meter and the house.

 

[Snoranger]

Sounds exactly like what happened when my parents' house had a bad neutral between the meter and the house.

Sounds like a few of us have experienced this.

 

[Curious Hound]

Sounds like a few of us have experienced this.

Probably. If those voltage readings are at the panel, that narrows it down to the neutral bonding screw in the main panel or a loose connection at the ground rod outside.

 

[Curious Hound]

That sounds like a bad/loose neutral.

So far this morning, I’ve finished off 2 twelve ounce coffees, a pack of Pop Tarts and removed a cover from a fan so it can be pressure washed. On to the next work orders. It’s triple time day for a 12 hr shift.

View attachment 136662

And repaired a few motor disconnects that had loose knife blade connections causing overheating.

Easy peasy. Just de-energize and replace the knife blade assembly

 

[SenorNoob]

We'd end up bending it back tight. Probably live...

 

[Curious Hound]

We'd end up bending it back tight. Probably live...

That’s no good. Once the fingers have been overheated, they lose their temper and will never grip tight again. Squeezing them doesn’t work because they are no longer springs. This causes a looser connection and more overheating with more thermal expansion and contraction making them even looser yet. Then higher temperatures… It’s a downward spiral that ends in fireballs and downtime. Once identified as overheating, the only solution is replacement. We do thermal inspection every fall and make necessary repairs ASAP. The IR camera doesn’t lie.

 

[SenorNoob]

I get it. Company says everything runs until fireballs happen. Sometimes after.

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

I get it. Company says everything runs until fireballs happen. Sometimes after.

Unfortunately that’s a lot of companies. And then they whine about the cost to fix and the unplanned downtime and all. Like bro, when it failed the first time and I tweaked the ends enough to make it work, that was the particular point in time you should have got a replacement and scheduled downtime. This didn’t have to be a big problem and it really could be less of an issue if you kept spare wear parts on hand so when a problem was discovered or happened, it could be fixed immediately. Or better yet, let’s do actual preventative maintenance. But that costs money and time…

 

[Curious Hound]

I get it. Company says everything runs until fireballs happen. Sometimes after.

We can’t do it that way. Customers want their cars too quick. Notice, also that that disconnect has an upper and lower knife blade assembly. There is an extra VFD in the cabinet. So, if something happens to the VFD/breaker/fuses/ line reactor, etc. that normally feeds that motor through the upper knife blade assembly, we can turn the disconnect to the bottom position and feed the motor from the standby VFD. All our critical equipment is like that. Some equipment, like elevators in our conveyor systems even have a second motor and gearbox (motoreducer) installed. Disconnect the coupling from the bad motoreducer, connect the coupling from lifting drum to the standby motoreducer, swap the cables to the standby motor and away we go. Replace the bad stuff later during weekend shutdown shift.

People want their cars quick.

It’s difficult for management to see that preventive and predictive maintenance coupled with good spare parts inventory actually saves money.

 

[Curious Hound]

Unfortunately that’s a lot of companies. And then they whine about the cost to fix and the unplanned downtime and all. Like bro, when it failed the first time and I tweaked the ends enough to make it work, that was the particular point in time you should have got a replacement and scheduled downtime. This didn’t have to be a big problem and it really could be less of an issue if you kept spare wear parts on hand so when a problem was discovered or happened, it could be fixed immediately. Or better yet, let’s do actual preventative maintenance. But that costs money and time…

I’ve worked at many of those companies. I’m fortunate to be working for a company now that has more resources and can afford to do much better, not perfectly, but much better.

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

So, I completely agree with you guys on its a neutral problem most likely and somewhere between the power company and the breaker panel.

As to the panel/subpanel, there is a panel and subpanel next to it. I’m no novice electrician, I immediately started isolating things and trying to work through the problem because an issue with neutral was my first expectation. Of course when I couldn’t isolate a problem, I then started checking everything, had a text conversation with @holyford86 and a phone conversation with a local contractor that I’m good buddies with.

I did find a pair of circuits in the subpanel that were ohming across the hots, and they are both short basement runs. Pretty sure the clamps from the panel were run down too tight. We isolated that from the rest and continued testing.

Homeowner installed two new 8’ ground rods 8’ apart outside and also has a temporary ground run to the pole ground. He is not exactly a novice either although he doesn’t have all of the diagnostic knowledge I have. He does have a couple Fluke meters and works on HVAC.

Here is the kicker. Tree company came through trimming right about when the problem started. Also, I don’t know if it happens all the time, but the wife insists it does, and I witnessed this happen, usually when a car would drive past, the lights would flicker like a strobe light…

 

[Curious Hound]

So, I completely agree with you guys on its a neutral problem most likely and somewhere between the power company and the breaker panel.

As to the panel/subpanel, there is a panel and subpanel next to it. I’m no novice electrician, I immediately started isolating things and trying to work through the problem because an issue with neutral was my first expectation. Of course when I couldn’t isolate a problem, I then started checking everything, had a text conversation with @holyford86

If it’s a neutral problem, it’s probably not on the power company side. The neutral/ground bonding is done most often in the main breaker panel, occasionally in the meter can. In many jurisdictions, everything from the service mast connection down is the customers responsibility. I would check to make sure your ground wire still has a clean, tight connection to the ground rod. If it is loose, don’t mess with it without first turning off your main breaker.

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

If it’s a neutral problem, it’s probably not on the power company side. The neutral/ground bonding is done most often in the main breaker panel, occasionally in the meter can. In many jurisdictions, everything from the service mast connection down is the customers responsibility. I would check to make sure your ground wire still has a clean, tight connection to the ground rod. If it is loose, don’t mess with it without first turning off your main breaker.

I accidentally posted before I was done, please reference the finished post and advise