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Was "W" maybe right..........


Last time I checked Germany and Japan were 2 of our biggest allies.

I think they go more by envolvement in actions agains the terrorists than ally status.
 
Last time I checked Germany and Japan were 2 of our biggest allies.
How many troop shave they committed to the war?



It's ok to say zero. We all know.
 
Actually Germany has sent quite a few soldiers to the war. I think they pulled them out a couple years ago but that doesn't change the fact that they were there.
 
Actually Germany has sent quite a few soldiers to the war. I think they pulled them out a couple years ago but that doesn't change the fact that they were there.

As I recall (and I may be wrong) Al-Queda put out a threat that any country that helps the US will be attacked too, I think it was about the time they attacked Spain. Shortly thereafter they pulled out.
 
As I recall (and I may be wrong) Al-Queda put out a threat that any country that helps the US will be attacked too, I think it was about the time they attacked Spain. Shortly thereafter they pulled out.

Ya I remember hearing something about that. Quite a few countries got into it for a while though. I know England, Canada and Poland all committed troops for a while.
 
They all pulled out fast too. They are no longer contributing allies. Not even financially.
 
They all pulled out fast too. They are no longer contributing allies. Not even financially.

Can you really blame them? If they were in a war that they had no business being in I wouldn't back them financially either, especially if their national debt was already in the trillions. Doesn't change the fact that we're still allies and would most likely fight for the other if one of our nations was in a serious and very threatening war.
 
Well, those two are particularly bad examples to use. Being as offensive use of their military is unconstitutional (their constitutions, not ours) after some trouble they ran into with their military adventures a few years ago. They both have been involved in non-combat roles.

If there's a big termite nest eating a stump next to your house, you take some action because it's only a matter of time. I know this military action is hard to stomach for a lot of people. And yes, there are uncertainties and hardships. But it's heading off future catastrophies. You can't afford to ignore things. You've got to lance that boil before it gets infected and you end up with a fatal blood infection. We've had a couple of those in our histories. The types of governments--like Iraq and Iran had and have, and the amount of wealth they have--those are termite mounds. A nuclear weapon would be unthinkable. It's too powerful of a lever to allow them to have. Looking at the tiny things and shaking your fist about specific details is a good way to end up in the 2020 global nuclear war.

What would have happened if Saddam had gotten smart and decided to start doing what the Security Council had told him to do. Gotten in good with everyone while building a nuclear weapon. He could have. We didn't know and that means we could never have been certain. Then, in 2020 he tells us to leave the gulf or he's going to blow up Riyahd and proclaim himself the leader of a new Arab Nation. The Saudi government is hated by Arab hardliners because of how slack it is. None of the maor Holy sites are near the Saudi capitol--Mecca and Medina are 1,000miles away. What is Saddam now has a third of the worlds proven reserves? Why not? WHat are we going to do about it if he has a nuclear weapon that could hit any major European city? We should just hope our 50/50 guess falls on our side?

I'm sure I could think up 20 scenarios about bad things that could happen without stability in the Gulf. China, India, EU, USA all with nuclear weapons and all trying to make a play to keep their oil-based economies from collapsing in the last half century of oil. And the great Arab Nation with nothing else except oil trying to stretch it out to the last because when it's gone, it's back to camel herding, making neat rugs and blown-glass trinkets.

We NEED to be there now as a stabilizing factor. We NEED a massive military base there with armored divisions, depot level facilities, air bases, naval bases--the works. If someone bumps the knob very far you can see just a glint of the results. Housing markets collapsing, food costing 50% more than it did a year ago. Think about a week with no flow. This is what a president has to face. This type of thing you look at from far off and you dig up the stump while you can.
 
The terrorists hate the US and our Allies. No one is bombing Norway, Germany, or even Japan. Only the US and our allies. Can you blame the other countries for not wanting to get involved in a war against a bunch of people that are just normal citizens in appearance?

the countries you listed are very much our allies,and they have seen attacks too.japan was homegrown terrorism,germany was a nightclub bombing traced back to libyia,iirc.

japan gave money and medical help in iraq,as they are limited by their constitution to defensive military action.

the terrorist hate anyone who are not like minded.look at the bombings not just in the middle east.phillipines,africa,indonesia,etc...

we didn't need this whole wmd bullshit to pluck iraqs little dictator,we already had un resolutions from first gulf war that were not fulfilled by sadam.it's ashame we used wmd,gives everyone a reason to moan and groan.
 
Well, those two are particularly bad examples to use. Being as offensive use of their military is unconstitutional (their constitutions, not ours) after some trouble they ran into with their military adventures a few years ago. They both have been involved in non-combat roles.

If there's a big termite nest eating a stump next to your house, you take some action because it's only a matter of time. I know this military action is hard to stomach for a lot of people. And yes, there are uncertainties and hardships. But it's heading off future catastrophies. You can't afford to ignore things. You've got to lance that boil before it gets infected and you end up with a fatal blood infection. We've had a couple of those in our histories. The types of governments--like Iraq and Iran had and have, and the amount of wealth they have--those are termite mounds. A nuclear weapon would be unthinkable. It's too powerful of a lever to allow them to have. Looking at the tiny things and shaking your fist about specific details is a good way to end up in the 2020 global nuclear war.

What would have happened if Saddam had gotten smart and decided to start doing what the Security Council had told him to do. Gotten in good with everyone while building a nuclear weapon. He could have. We didn't know and that means we could never have been certain. Then, in 2020 he tells us to leave the gulf or he's going to blow up Riyahd and proclaim himself the leader of a new Arab Nation. The Saudi government is hated by Arab hardliners because of how slack it is. None of the maor Holy sites are near the Saudi capitol--Mecca and Medina are 1,000miles away. What is Saddam now has a third of the worlds proven reserves? Why not? WHat are we going to do about it if he has a nuclear weapon that could hit any major European city? We should just hope our 50/50 guess falls on our side?

I'm sure I could think up 20 scenarios about bad things that could happen without stability in the Gulf. China, India, EU, USA all with nuclear weapons and all trying to make a play to keep their oil-based economies from collapsing in the last half century of oil. And the great Arab Nation with nothing else except oil trying to stretch it out to the last because when it's gone, it's back to camel herding, making neat rugs and blown-glass trinkets.

We NEED to be there now as a stabilizing factor. We NEED a massive military base there with armored divisions, depot level facilities, air bases, naval bases--the works. If someone bumps the knob very far you can see just a glint of the results. Housing markets collapsing, food costing 50% more than it did a year ago. Think about a week with no flow. This is what a president has to face. This type of thing you look at from far off and you dig up the stump while you can.

I like the way you put that, I don't agree 100% but then again I don't follow foreign policy very closely. I don't know enough about the issues to form my own supported opinion... Definitely some good points to ponder.
 
A few will do anything to say Bush lied. A few will do anything to say he is ok. The rest of us draw our own conclusions on case by case basis. Period. I have already read enough unsubstantiated "facts" in this thread to fill a whole year.
 
And no one has proved to me that W lied. It is fairly well substantuated that he believed what he was told by intelligence. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. It makes us all so much smarter.:)shady
 
It blows me away that the U.S is in bed with CHINA and thier DICKtator, but they had to get Saddam out right away. It just does'nt make any sense to me.
 
And no one has proved to me that W lied. It is fairly well substantuated that he believed what he was told by intelligence. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. It makes us all so much smarter.:)shady

Yes, your right. People need to learn from their mistakes.
 
And no one has proved to me that W lied. It is fairly well substantuated that he believed what he was told by intelligence. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. It makes us all so much smarter.:)shady
No one said he lied. He's just a tard that believes everything he does is right.
 

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