switching to a thicker oil? and some preformance mods?

[pillen140]

Forgot to meantion, try starting a 3.0 in the middle of a new york winter with 20w50.

 

[--weezl--]

Weezl, when you said "you are dumb" Idk why, but I read it in the voice of that guy that says "hide yo wife hide yo kids" lol. Tried to rep but wouldn't let me. I don't know what a pcv has to do with a k&n, I think he made a mistake but was afraid to stand corrected. Anywho, I run a k&n drop in when I am, or when I plan to go off road, it doesn't add any power! Only use it because I can wash it after it gets all nasty and clogged with dust and mud and other debris and a few times they've gotten wet. Got sick of paying $20+ dollars in air filters every time I went on a really dust trail. I use a paper filter the majority of the time. If you don't over oil a k&n, they are ok, but still not as good as a paper filter. The only thing I would change about your post is runnign without a filter is better than a k+n, because most normal people know what you mean about the oil making dirt stick, and used that to get your point across, some not so mechanically inclined run to napa without an air filter, lol I .

good point, agreed on all points you made, but think about this... a K&N does not filter as well, it lets about 5x more dirt through the filter (when perfectly clean) than a paper filter does, when do you suppose the most dirt will be in the are for the motor to suck in? is it a) when you are driving on the highway, b) when you are in the car wash, or c) when you are driving at a moderately slow speed, on a dirt road, with traction issues?
lol

Hmm. All my friends that build engines swear by 20-50 also. Even during break in. They built the nasty odd fire beast the ranger below.

[IG]http://www.philofab.com/temp/almoststockranger.jpg[/IMG]

Something that needs to be mentioned is that I live in an area that reaches 130F in the summer time. Thicker oil is the way to go here.

slightly different story, that being said though, what are your friend's actual jobs? you said "friends that build engines" that's not the same as a mechanical engineer (who designs engines) or even a mechanic who builds motors professionally...

number 1 reason they want to run 20-50 oil for break in, what did i say about that wear to a certain point thing? racing is NOT typically about being the fastest, most powerful CAR (truck, bike, ect) it's about being the most consistent, this allows the driver to push it that much closer to the edge, without worrying about going over...

if a race motor is broken in "properly" with many oils, it would take months to get it to the point where it is fully broken in, if you jump straight to the thick one, it would cut the time down to a few weeks... because it's really hard on the motor at the beginning, and everything that needs to wear, wears fast (for all intents and purposes, breaking a motor in is no different than wearing a motor out, the only real difference is one is used at the beginning of the life of a motor, the other is at the end...)

That, and that's a race engine lol, we run 20-50 in our late models and modifieds. If your gonna run 8000-9000rpm for a couple hours in 100 degree weather, you pretty much have too

agreed

Forgot to mention, try starting a 3.0 in the middle of a new york winter with 20w50.

lol, or in Calgary Alberta, we get -40 in the winter... the gear oil in my truck, and atf in the tc/manual, when i let off the gas pedal after my truck has sat over night, it feels like someone slammed on the brakes, because there is so much resistance from the thick molasses in the cases!

it's actually so cold, that if i start the truck, put it in gear, get moving to a quick run, say 2000 rpm or so, and let off the throttle, everything is so cold, the motor, the engine oil, the gas, the driveline, that the IAC can't compensate for the amount of resistance on the motor, and the truck will stall... with the clutch in, it will idle, though you can hear the oil bypass for the first minute or so

 

[philofab]

slightly different story, that being said though, what are your friend's actual jobs? you said "friends that build engines" that's not the same as a mechanical engineer (who designs engines) or even a mechanic who builds motors professionally...

Kevin Kroyer http://www.kroyerracingengines.com/

Leon Patton http://www.pattonracingengines.com/

My machinist that does all my street engines also recommends 20-50W.

 

[Airmaster]

This thread has gone wild but I'll throw in my two cents

On oil, I say stick with what the manual tells you, if the engine is at a really high mileage trying the "high mileage" oil at the same viscosity is as far as I'd go.

On the K and N filter, I say keep it if you have already paid for the filter. I've had both the drop in and now the cone and I've had no issues with it.

 

[gw33gp]

Keeping the K&N will not hurt anything. I have heard all the hypothetical stuff about K&N air filters but I also have well over 500,000 miles of experience using drop-in K&N oil filters. I have been using them on my vehicles since a 1980. I have never had a problem with a MAF getting fouled with oil.

I had an 89 Ranger 2.9L that had almost 200,000 miles (with a K&N air filter) on it when I sold it in 2002. It still used no more oil than it ever did and the engine was running as good or better than it did when new. My last trip with it in 2001 was a round trip from SoCal to Ohio towing my race car. I never had to add a drop of oil during the entire trip. It is still being driven by a co-worker with no problems. I also ran extended oil changes with that Ranger so I had the oil analyzed periodically. One of the things they check is silicon. That is an indicator of dirt in the engine from the intake or elsewhere. The results were never out of the normal range, indicating the K&N air filter was working well. I also ran 20W-50 Valvoline Synthetic oil in that Ranger because I worked that engine hard towing and running off-road in the desert. The only time I noticed a problem with using the higher viscosity oil was in the mountains in the Winter. It would slow crank in the morning after sitting all night in the cold. I have to agree though, it probably reduced my gas mileage slightly overall.

I also had a 99 Cougar V6 that had 125,000 miles on when I sold it. The K&N filter also provided air filtration for it from the time it was new. That engine was also in perfect condition when I sold it.

The Ranger I currently drive also has had a K&N filter since new and at 130,000 miles it is still running strong with no problems. I plan to keep it for 300,000 miles.

 

[06RangerXLT]

Just gonna put my physical evidence in here. Ive been running one for the past 20,000. I clean mine ever 10,000kms. Last time i cleaned mine it was at 62,000. im now at 70,562 as of this second.

Top of filter leading into airbox:

did the hand wipe test, no dirt from the top of my filter.


underside of filter:

as you can see its doing its job just fine.


Airbox:

Intake tube: (again, its obviously doing its job)

MAF: no oil on it.

I washed out my air box last time i cleaned the filter... and if you know me you know when i wash something i get it SPOTLESS.

looks to me like they work beautifully. I didnt see a noticeable MPG increase, but i did see improved throttle response.

 

[Rearanger]

Just gonna put my physical evidence in here....looks to me like they work beautifully.

And now for the scientific part:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm

 

[gw33gp]

And now for the scientific part:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm

I have been a test engineer in the aerospace industry and have conducted many test of all types over the years. I have learned that testing is a good method of screening and can provide some good information but cannot replace real world use.

My conclusion from real world usage of K&N filters is; if it passes particles, it is not enough or of the size to harm an engine unless the filter is installed incorrectly.

 

[Rearanger]

I have learned that testing is a good method of screening and can provide some good information but cannot replace real world use.

Real world use is not meant to be absent real world test data which may or may not confirm lab testing.

My conclusion from real world usage of K&N filters is; if it passes particles, it is not enough or of the size to harm an engine unless the filter is installed incorrectly.

Harm is a subjective term which needs a definition. Paper element filters filter better while providing more than enough airflow to a stock or near stock engine.

 

[--weezl--]

Harm is a subjective term which needs a definition. Paper element filters filter better while providing more than enough airflow to a stock or near stock engine.

and based off this, plus the fact that paper filters have NO draw backs, other than the need to replace every 20,000km (12,500miles) (vs the 10,000 miles who ever it was above was cleaning it at) and allow the same performance, there is NO reason why you should buy a K&N for triple the cost of a paper one...

 

[philofab]

Both K&N and paper filters work just fine. Pick whichever you like and run it.

Same goes for motor oils. A heavier oil will not harm you engine. Run a little thicker if you like. It's all personal preference.