States stripping unions bargaining rights

[K-Slice]

That the states are stripping the states of their bargaining rights is not surprising. The states are going broke! Republicans are simply doing what they can, at the level that they are at, to try and balance the budget.

Is it really teachers who are destroying the budget? Or is is the multi-billion dollar companies that pay no state or federal taxes? And like I said before, the teachers union was willing to make the concessions, this bill was about nothing more than union busting.

 

[doorgunner]

And specifically on the Wisconsin bill... The joke of a governor they have claims it's all about the budget, but the unions agreed to make the concessions he wanted! They were willing to compromise! But he wouldn't be happy until he'd broken the backs of teachers, janitors, and school bus drivers in his state.

If it were really about cutting the budget, shouldn't he have taken away police and firemen's union rights too? No, because that would have turned the WHOLE country on him, not just the majority. The republicant's are digging their own grave, attacking the middle class and showing their true colors. They stand for the rich, and big business, not woth the tea party hordes who think their voice is being heard...

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh.......politics.........the Democrats give you just enough to keep you alive & voting for them(that's why they need to legalize the illegals).........and the Republicans(who ACT like they care) take it away......one day the American people might learn......maybe.............probably not.................

If you ever want to know the TRUTH........go to War in a foreign country......then you'll see WHO'S ON YOUR SIDE.............................

 

[rusty70f100]

Is it really teachers who are destroying the budget? Or is is the multi-billion dollar companies that pay no state or federal taxes? And like I said before, the teachers union was willing to make the concessions, this bill was about nothing more than union busting.

Would you favor taxing these companies? You know they'd just move to either another state, or to China. Then what? Fewer taxpayers and a bigger hole. Problem is, even if you did that, the problem would only continue to get worse. Like I said, this is just a symptom of a much larger problem. Watch the video I linked.

I already outlined the reasons they're going broke. As far as I can tell, we've been sold out by both parties. Neither of them have the best interests of traditional Americans in mind. All they care about is staying in power.

 

[K-Slice]

Would you favor taxing these companies? You know they'd just move to either another state, or to China. Then what? Fewer taxpayers and a bigger hole. Problem is, even if you did that, the problem would only continue to get worse. Like I said, this is just a symptom of a much larger problem. Watch the video I linked.

I already outlined the reasons they're going broke. As far as I can tell, we've been sold out by both parties. Neither of them have the best interests of traditional Americans in mind. All they care about is staying in power.

I agree that right now, both parties are no good, but the Democrats are the lesser of 2 evils by far. People always say if we tax the rich/companies they'll move out of state or country, so what CAN we do? Should we just grovel at the alter of big business? Let them get away with anything, because were so afraid they might take our jobs away? let them enrich themselves at the expence of regular people in hopes that someday we'll get thrown a bone?

 

[rusty70f100]

You see, both parties are nothing more than puppets run by the same group of people. Once you realize that, things become a lot clearer. I would elaborate, but again, not PC.

What we need to do, right now, is to stand up for our own people.

The Democrats would have us convert to Marxism.
The Republicans would have us convert to Corporatism.

In either scenario, the traditional American loses.

They're playing us against ourselves, making us in-fight while they continue towards their real goals. Their ultimate goal is the destruction of the traditional American and his replacement with third world slaves. How we get there, either through Corpratism, or through Marxism, makes no difference to those at the top. Every time you vote for either party, Republican or Democrat, you are voting for your own destruction. I think it's time for a political party with a third position.

 

[JohnnyO]

I agree that right now, both parties are no good, but the Democrats are the lesser of 2 evils by far. People always say if we tax the rich/companies they'll move out of state or country, so what CAN we do? Should we just grovel at the alter of big business? Let them get away with anything, because were so afraid they might take our jobs away? let them enrich themselves at the expence of regular people in hopes that someday we'll get thrown a bone?

Let the government take over everything. They know what is best for us. No one can leave, no business can leave, and the government will set wages and prices that are fair for everyone. Karl Marx said it would work.

At one time, government workers made less money than private sector workers but were compensated with better benefits, pension, security, and more holidays. That is no longer the case. Problem is that the people who pay them (meaning me and you, the taxpayers) don't have squat for pension and benefits any more and the states are going broke because they are paying out more than what comes in. The average taxpayer is the peon now and the government workers are the elites, not the corporations that you've been taught are evil. Detroit and Youngstown, to name two, chased all the "evil" corporations away and we see how that's worked out. Ain't nowhere to work.

 

[shane96ranger]

Let the government take over everything. They know what is best for us. No one can leave, no business can leave, and the government will set wages and prices that are fair for everyone. Karl Marx said it would work.

Everyone can be exactly the same with no incentive to make a better life for themselves because no matter what it will be the same. We can all get the exact everything! I love it when someone else knows what's best for all of us.

 

[kimcrwbr1]

And specifically on the Wisconsin bill... The joke of a governor they have claims it's all about the budget, but the unions agreed to make the concessions he wanted! They were willing to compromise! But he wouldn't be happy until he'd broken the backs of teachers, janitors, and school bus drivers in his state.

If it were really about cutting the budget, shouldn't he have taken away police and firemen's union rights too? No, because that would have turned the WHOLE country on him, not just the majority. The republicant's are digging their own grave, attacking the middle class and showing their true colors. They stand for the rich, and big business, not woth the tea party hordes who think their voice is being heard...

Without doing what he did in Wisconsin there would have been massive layoffs. I would think the people you are talking about would be grateful they still have a job. We in the private sector do not have that privelage. The tea party is being heard and it scares the hell out of progressives on both sides. We are a nation of the popular vote and just because you dont agree with the tea party movement you cannot deny our numbers. Most TPers are the middle class and are non violent unless you consider voting your consience a act of violence. Not one republican walked away from the health care vote or any other vote for that matter why then do the progressive/dems think they can hold democracy hostage. I compare it to not playing ball because you know your not gonna win. Its called being poor loosers if your not there to vote then you cannot cry about what was passed. It is chicken s&%t politics at its worst and they should be ashamed for acting like spoiled children not getting their way.

 

[Ranger Dave (B25)]

It's sad the the right has successfully turned the middle class on eachother. As they said in Gangs of New York: “You can pay half the poor to kill the other half - Boss Tweed.

Big business and the rich have tricked too many of us into believing that their interests are our interests, ie, if the rich are happy they'll make me happy. Unions are one of the few institutions keeping the middle class from becoming the working poor. I know many people who are members of unions, including my father who's a teacher. None of them live exceptionally well, and all of them work hard for what they have.

I know many people are sheep and can't think for themself, so they need boss Rush to tell them what to believe. I do actually listen to rush on accasion and have heard him say 'don't do any research, just believe what I say'. I'm paraphrasing but, none the less.

It all comes down to this though. Unions are good for the middle class, they fight for higher wages and better benefits of woking people. They allow us to stand up to the rich and not be fired for it. Anyone who believes that unions dont help the middle class needs to wake up.

You're joking, right? These are union and liberal Democrat talking points, each and every one.

Nice try. Drive through.

 

[Tedybear]

You're joking, right? These are union and liberal Democrat talking points, each and every one.

Nice try. Drive through.

Head over to opensecrets dot org

You can check first hand exactly where "Labor" (aka unions) invest over 90% of their donations.

As for some other comments? I love this quote "I've never gotten a job from a poor person".

Back in the day of the "Boss Tweed"? Unions did serve an important purpose. HOWEVER that has long sense passed with state/federal/local labor laws that are in effect governing how employees get treated. People get overtime pay, OSHA protection, Workers comp, unemployment, etc...

Pay and compensations packages should be based upon a persons skill and how well they are qualified to do the job. Plus if they can't do the job? The company should have the full rights to terminate the employee and find someone that can---and not have their hands tied with a union rep breathing down their neck. (think teachers union....)

I can see where some of the newer industries "could" make use of some union protections? But I can also see from my own local community 'unions' that have for all intensive purposes? Hosed the company to the point it was either outsource or bankrupt. NYS is classic for this, just as CA is. Everyone wants their share of the pie---but no one is willing to take a smaller cut when the bakery burns down.

S-

 

[Ranger Dave (B25)]

From opensecrets:



Top All-Time Donors, 1989-2010

LEGEND:

Republican

Democrat

On the fence

= Between 40% and 59% to both parties

= Leans Dem/Repub (60%-69%)

= Strongly Dem/Repub (70%-89%)

= Solidly Dem/Repub (over 90%) RankOrganizationTotal '89-'10Dem %Repub %Tilt

1ActBlue$51,124,846 99%0%

2AT&T Inc$46,292,670 44%55%

3American Fedn of State, County & Municipal Employees$43,477,361 98%1%

4National Assn of Realtors$38,721,441 49%50%

5Goldman Sachs$33,387,252 61%37%

6American Assn for Justice$33,143,279 90%8%

7Intl Brotherhood of Electrical Workers$33,056,216 97%2%

8National Education Assn$32,024,610 93%6%

9Laborers Union$30,292,050 92%7%

10Teamsters Union$29,319,982 93%6%

11Carpenters & Joiners Union$29,265,808 89%10%

12Service Employees International Union$29,140,232 95%3%

13American Federation of Teachers$28,733,991 98%0%

14Communications Workers of America$28,376,306 98%0%

15Citigroup Inc$28,065,874 50%49%

16American Medical Assn$27,597,820 40%59%

17United Auto Workers$27,134,252 98%0%

18National Auto Dealers Assn$26,311,758 32%67%

19Machinists & Aerospace Workers Union$26,229,477 98%0%

20United Parcel Service$25,290,039 36%62%

21United Food & Commercial Workers Union$25,226,733 98%1%

22Altria Group$24,643,651 27%72%

23American Bankers Assn$24,048,220 40%59%

24National Assn of Home Builders$23,461,905 35%64%

25EMILY's List$23,391,763 99%0%

26National Beer Wholesalers Assn$22,757,795 34%65%

27JPMorgan Chase & Co$22,514,838 51%48%

28Microsoft Corp$21,691,408 53%46%

29National Assn of Letter Carriers$20,943,434 88%10%

30Time Warner$20,327,541 72%27%

31Morgan Stanley$20,245,499 44%54%

32Lockheed Martin$19,839,004 43%56%

33General Electric$19,725,132 51%48%

34Verizon Communications$19,690,873 40%58%

35Credit Union National Assn$18,908,979 48%51%

36AFL-CIO$18,900,396 95%4%

37FedEx Corp$18,816,940 40%58%

38Bank of America$18,699,265 46%53%

39National Rifle Assn$18,209,746 17%82%

40Blue Cross/Blue Shield$18,197,594 39%60%

41Ernst & Young$18,183,788 44%55%

42Sheet Metal Workers Union$18,111,313 97%1%

43International Assn of Fire Fighters$17,731,993 81%17%

44Plumbers & Pipefitters Union$17,635,976 94%4%

45American Hospital Assn$17,562,729 53%45%

46Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu$17,445,497 35%64%

47American Dental Assn$17,371,235 46%53%

48Operating Engineers Union$17,122,185 85%14%

49PricewaterhouseCoopers$16,699,488 37%62%

50Air Line Pilots Assn$16,586,697 84%15%

51UBS AG$16,428,222 40%58%

52Natl Assn/Insurance & Financial Advisors$15,984,854 42%57%

53AFLAC Inc$15,832,719 44%55%

54Boeing Co$15,641,085 47%52%

55Pfizer Inc$14,900,921 31%68%

56Union Pacific Corp$14,883,203 25%74%

57United Steelworkers$14,677,901 99%0%

58United Transportation Union$14,475,010 88%10%

59Merrill Lynch$14,295,360 37%61%

60Ironworkers Union$14,142,975 92%6%

61Reynolds American$13,687,778 24%75%

62Northrop Grumman$13,560,724 43%56%

63American Institute of CPAs$13,367,435 42%57%

64American Postal Workers Union$13,312,673 95%3%

65Credit Suisse Group$13,138,060 44%55%

66National Rural Electric Cooperative Assn$13,029,671 51%48%

67BellSouth Corp$12,993,782 45%54%

68Anheuser-Busch$12,862,221 48%51%

69General Dynamics$12,566,267 47%52%

70Comcast Corp$11,888,339 56%43%

71American Financial Group$11,760,437 18%81%

72Walt Disney Co$11,753,831 68%31%

73Exxon Mobil$11,677,631 13%85%

74National Air Traffic Controllers Assn$11,630,988 80%18%

75Chevron$11,530,759 24%75%

76GlaxoSmithKline$11,522,090 29%70%

77KPMG LLP $11,478,786 34%65%

78Club for Growth $11,357,288 1%96%

79DLA Piper$11,357,157 67%32%

80Raytheon Co $11,333,292 46%52%

81News Corp$11,270,692 58%41%

82Natl Active & Retired Fed Employees Assn $11,265,500 77%21%

83Koch Industries $11,002,235 10%89%

84Honeywell International$11,001,355 47%52%

85Human Rights Campaign$10,501,271 90%9%

86National Restaurant Assn$10,354,545 16%82%

87New York Life Insurance$10,274,174 52%46%

88Associated Builders & Contractors $10,264,858 1%98%

89Wal-Mart Stores$10,178,938 27%71%

90Southern Co$10,162,887 31%67%

91Saban Capital Group $10,139,185 99%0%

92American Health Care Assn $10,114,879 52%46%

93American Academy of Ophthalmology$10,043,708 52%47%

94Prudential Financial$10,033,181 50%49%

95MBNA Corp$10,029,256 17%82%

96Newsweb Corp$9,957,850 98%0%

97UST Inc$9,950,761 21%78%

98American Society of Anesthesiologists$9,867,537 42%57%

99MetLife Inc$9,867,248 54%45%

100AIG$9,828,364 50%49%

101Freddie Mac$9,819,600 43%56%

102American Crystal Sugar$9,792,339 62%37%

103CSX Corp$9,791,929 33%65%

104Associated General Contractors$9,753,590 15%84%

105Indep Insurance Agents & Brokers/America$9,698,525 40%59%

106General Motors$9,678,878 39%60%

107Securities Industry & Financial Mkt Assn$9,678,182 44%55%

108Eli Lilly & Co$9,630,679 31%68%

109National Cmte to Preserve Social Security & Medicare$9,610,115 80%18%

110Massachusetts Mutual Life Insurance $9,606,748 39%59%

111American Optometric Assn $9,477,163 59%40%

112Lehman Brothers$9,357,030 54%44%

113American Maritime Officers$9,285,471 46%52%

114Transport Workers Union $8,994,649 95%4%

115Amway/Alticor Inc$8,872,278 0%99%

116Seafarers International Union$8,727,594 85%14%

117National Cmte for an Effective Congress$8,707,940 99%0%

118National Fedn of Independent Business $8,608,36 27%92%

119Archer Daniels Midland$8,522,673 44%55%

120American Airlines$8,467,294 47%52%

121Ford Motor Co $8,453,192 38%61%

122Burlington Northern Santa Fe Corp$8,383,535 31%68%

123Fannie Mae $8,362,326 54%45%

124Painters & Allied Trades Union$8,337,796 88%10%

125National Assn of Broadcasters$8,218,537 45%54%

126Skadden, Arps et al$8,135,046 78%21%

127MCI Inc$8,092,972 46%53%

128Wachovia Corp$8,059,347 31%68%

129American Council of Life Insurers$7,930,665 38%61%

130Amalgamated Transit Union $7,776,918 93%6%

131Aircraft Owners & Pilots Assn$7,713,366 45%54%

132American Trucking Assns $7,704,240 28%71%

133Marine Engineers Beneficial Assn$7,598,877 74%24%

134Bristol-Myers Squibb$7,370,699 22%77%

135Bear Stearns $7,145,772 55%43%

136Enron Corp$6,548,235 28%71%

137Andersen$6,253,977 37%62%

138BP$6,231,474 28%70%

139MGM Resorts International$6,190,170 48%51%

140Vivendi$4,704,596 66%32%

 

[Tedybear]

Dave,

Interesting how all the unions donate some heavy duty $$$$ to the democrats, the range of well over 90%.

The rest of it is either companies supporting republicans, or on the fence. I'd prefer all donations be either on the fence, or NOT AT ALL.

Some of the union thugs (yeah, there are some dirtbags union reps). Have taken to sending death threats and threats to destroy companies unless they change their support over to the democrats.

http://www.620wtmj.com/shows/charliesykes/117764004.html?blog=y

Crap like this should be an eye opener.

S-

 

[nadsab]

...

there's no reason a guy should make 30 dollars an hour to drive four bolts into a plastic pan with an air ratchet when i'm managing an entire factory's worth of computers for 15 an hour, being non union.

Then maybe your office should unionize - or if your boss is ripping off employees that much for working so hard - you should at least hit her/him up for a big raise. You are definitely worth more than 15 bucks an hour if that is what your job is that's for sure.

I do think that some unions go too far and got greedy and some gov employee unions should be reigned in to help tax payers, however on the other side of the coin there are millions of other non union employees in jobs that pay far too low for the hard sometines dangerous work and long hours they do.

I think some unions in some industries need to be banned and in other industries they need to unionize for low paid over worked employees.

 

[nadsab]

Have you read about what the governer of Michigan is trying to do?

The gov of Michigan already did it!

They passed a law in Michigan a few days ago which now allows state lawmakers to fire any locally elected offical - basically they can now get rid of an entire city council and or mayor - locally elected politican - if they want to. Folks in Mich are talking about court fights, recall petition drives etc.

 

[Ranger Dave (B25)]

Dave,

Interesting how all the unions donate some heavy duty $$$$ to the democrats, the range of well over 90%.

The rest of it is either companies supporting republicans, or on the fence. I'd prefer all donations be either on the fence, or NOT AT ALL.

Some of the union thugs (yeah, there are some dirtbags union reps). Have taken to sending death threats and threats to destroy companies unless they change their support over to the democrats.

http://www.620wtmj.com/shows/charliesykes/117764004.html?blog=y

Crap like this should be an eye opener.

S-

Union thuggery and intimidation against opposition have been their marching orders since they've been in existence. Nothing new here. That's their entire playbook: if we don't get the results we want - incite violence. And their community-organizer-in-chief fully supports it. Ain't HOPE and CHANGE great?

Yeah, look at all that money being funneled to the Dems by organized 'labor.' Kinda telling, isn't it. Yet they whine and bitch and moan like children when business supports the other side - nevermind that if you add all of the business support to the Republicans it STILL doesn't equal the money the unions send to the Dems.

Seems the average American is waking up to their bullshit, at long last - you know them, they're the 88% of the workforce that can manage on their own to keep their jobs by working hard. They'd better - the alternative is state - and likely national - bankruptcy.