souping up the OHV 4.0

[TheBeast]

I feel like your debating about building a 351 cleveland vs a 390. 351 cleveland is one hell of a truck motor, a 390 GT will haul some serious ass in a well built mustang. To each there own, but I will always be a bigger fan of a 5.0 swap. When you can pick up a good running 5.0 explorer that may be beat up for 1000-1500, have a parts car and swap everything over, it tends to make it more economical to throw a V8 in there. Besides the fact it is massively cheaper to buy parts for.

 

[AllanD]

Frankly if I were going to build a street/highway Ranger with a V8
I MIGHT build it with a 5.0.

But I'd be more inclined to use a 351W and gear it tall (3.27 or 3.55)

an offroad V8 Ranger? I wouldn't even think about a 5.0.
A 5.0, and to most people "5.0" really means "5.0HO"
the HO is a revvy lttle bitch.... torque peak at 3400rpm...
and people complain about the 3.0?

Until about 2200-2400 a STOCK 4.0 will stomp all over
a 5.0 with identical gearing, why? because a 4.0 is
making 200ft+ anywhere from 1200rpm to over 4000rpm

The 5.0 only ever makes 295-315ftlb (depending on specific calibration)
and doesn't really get working until 2500rpm or so. yeah, the 5.0 will
win a game of stop light bingo, but...

Offroad? In low range a 4.0 with 4.10's is, if not impossible to stall,
extreemly difficult to stall...

a 5.8? a 5.8 is to a 5.0 everthing the 4.0 is to the 2.9.

Which would you rather have?

As a highway cruiser geared real tall I could drive a 5.8 ranger and never
(ever) let it see the far side of 3500rpm.

And It'd cruise on the highway at 1600rpm@75mph.

AD

 

[Angie]

Hey BIRD you lurking? you were saying this back on page 2.

""All of a sudden, the valve timing events play a role in the fueling. Throw some overlap between the exhaust and intake valves and now you're allowing some of that fuel that the PCM / tune thinks is going into the cylinder to combust to actually go out the exhaust valve - resulting in a leaner combusion condition that under closed loop will be compensated for by adaptive fueling, but under open loop wouldn't. A tweak would be needed either in the requested fuel tables or, better yet, in the injector timing to delay the firing of the injector slightly - keeping the fuel in the intake stroke. (this will also help get rid of the raw gas smell in the exhaust)""

I took the truck to a shop this morning to ask them if they can tune... the guy says to me "sounds like the cam you put in there just won't work period" in other words swap out this for the orignal... LOL I was ummmm ya ok... and left. ( i got the feeling he wasn't interested in this project)

Was talking to another shop that I know does up import ricers and import Mini-stock race cars. And he was asking me when I built it up where I timed the cam at, and if I degreed it. I said I went TDC and no I didn't degree it for the compcam booklet said that it wasn't necessary. He said that in order to get the PCM to fully jive with the valves/cam/injectors I might have to retard the cam. you have any thoughts about this and where did you set your timing? TDC>? or back a bit? (meaning take off the timing cover and jump a tooth) (wich seems a bit strange to me) I am aware that you tune your builds yourself, can you give me a bit more info on how you actualy do it? thanks

 

[Bird]

Angie - stay away from that 2nd tuner also - he's a hack. What he's describing would allow the injector to fire at the proper interval of the valve timing, but the valve sequencing with the piston would be off and, additionally, the power range would shift upward and low end power would be lost - great for a rice motor that will rev to 8k, but not for ours. I guess he doesn't understand injector delays and their function with modded engines.
I've gone through the install / degree routine with more than a couple of these cams and Comp has already ground a little bit of advance into these things to bump up the bottom end power while allowing the cam profiles to build the mid range and upper end power - I've never needed to try to retard / advance the cams - Comp Cams got these right. I've always installed them straight up with new FORD timing chains/gears - some of the other brand replacement sets have the keyways ground to advance the cams also.

Actual 'tuning' of these things involves setting the software to be able to datalog and then change the different fueling, spark and load profiles in the PCM for the actual build of the engine along with the injectors / MAF that you're using. Adaptive control (closed loop) has to be turned off and specific conditions set up to log the A/F ratios so that the load / fueling tables can be set up for proper A/F along with the MAF transfer function to allow controlled fueling based on airflow - the initial tuning software costs around $300 and the interface another $300 - that's just to tune a single PCM code - additional PCM's are $100 or so. Pretty expensive, but if you are constantly modding like I do, it pays for itself pretty quickly with dyno tunes running $400+.

If you already have all your mods and aren't going any further, the a good dyno tune followed up with drivability tuning by a professional tuner is all you need.

(The tuning software/interface for my GM vehicles was far cheaper and allows me to tune 3 different PCM codes before I have to pay any additional fees.)

Bird

 

[Angie]

Thanks Bird, There is one other mod that I am looking into and this is a set of headers. (found a used set for sale for 170 (hedmans) wasn't getting them till next month sometime (let this christmas thing settle down first) From what you have said above, what I will be doing is just looking for a dyno shop that will be able to tune this thing up. Some how I was more under the impression you get some new chip and stick it into the computer somewhere (guys in here talk bama and such) and that is what I was under the impression was the fix. I will pay the $$$ needed to dyno for when I drive this truck the lost fuel savings will pay for the dyno in a month. as for the MAF can you suggest a good aftermarket? or am I better off to just get a new FORD one? thanks. (oh placed in coyles timing set sprockets & chains) you have any probs with these?

 

[Bird]

In your case, being ODB-1, you would require a chip that is loaded with the tune you need - this chip would then be plugged into the PCM - adds a little more complexity / aggravation to the mix. Bamachips is pretty good - I know Doug personally and can vouch for him, but you might want to keep looking for a good dyno tuner closer - might look on www.v6power.net - they have a lot of people up there that may be able to help.

IIRC, cloyes timing setups used to have advance built into them, but the only way to tell for sure would be to degree everything and find out. A little cam advance is good, too much can cause problems.

 

[Angie]

Thanks for your input and knowledge Bird. I wish now that I would have talked to you about this build BEFORE I started it and built it. Makes me wonder about other probs others get into in here about "its easy, place the cam in and it is done" Forehand knowledge and research is way better than back end headaches and pulling hair out.

thanks again, and sorry for the uneducated questions.

 

[turbo cat]

you may want to also look into the Moates Quarterhorse and see if it can help what your trying to accomplish.

 

[Madracingalley]

Until about 2200-2400 a STOCK 4.0 will stomp all over
a 5.0 with identical gearing, why? because a 4.0 is
making 200ft+ anywhere from 1200rpm to over 4000rpm

Offroad? In low range a 4.0 with 4.10's is, if not impossible to stall,
extreemly difficult to stall...

I completly agree, I STILL haven't stalled mine...

The limited slip is fun, untill you hit snow... then it goes to the closest ditch

I just cleaned my engine up a little, (Map sensor, DPFE, vaccum lines, odds and ends) and I swear it runs 1000x better

 

[AllanD]

I need to clarify what I meant when I said "impossible to stall"

I'm talking about letting the engine settling into idle in 2nd gear
& low range then attempting to hold the truck with the brake.

In my truck the brakes lose, and I have really good brakes.

I'm afraid to try it in first for fear that something expensive will break.

How good are my brakes?
I'm NOT going to say that I could lock the wheels with a full
load of fuel (84gallons) in the truck and a ton of rock in the bed in bare
feet with a sharp thumbtack taped to the brake pedal... but I might
try it if the thumbtack was kinda dull...

you really want to be very gentle with my brake pedal or the truck bites back.

But those brakes are no match for low range in 2nd

as for a limited slip or a locker causing issues in the snow?

I think you missed something...
a Locker or limited slip only ensures to varying degrees that both wheels will turn.

Having both wheels turning makes it more probable that the truck
will be able to move... but here's the rub, don't assume that the truck will do so in a "nose forward" attitude.

In 2wd with a limited slip I often wished for wipers on the side
windows so I could see where I was going while climbing the
(steep) hill to my house.

But if one side window became too snow covered a simply jerk of
the steering wheell would get the truck to climb the hill "the other way"
so I could look out the clear window...

I really freaked out a friend by doing that one snowy afternoon

then again I doubt that particular friend was all that freaked,
he was in the car one afternoon when he saw me lock all four wheels
and abrubtly turn the steering wheel, allow the car to rotate about
30degrees, then release the brakes to demonstrate a collision avoidance
manuever... while actually avoiding a collision...

the car changed direction like I had bounced off something...
It never entered his mind to ask how I knew it would do that.

AD

 

[Madracingalley]

the limited slip would probibly work better if i had real tires

 

[AllanD]

My Borla headers which WERE laying on the ground getting snowed on (back in 2009), because the #4 primary tube cracked at the edge of the weld to the collector and the noise from the leak was drivine me crazier than I already am...


Well, the Borla's are back on the truck and have been for over a year...

The Hedman's are in the bottom drawer of my toolbox.

the Y-pipe has a clearance issue (cat flange VS Right side frame-rail)
which I am considering how to deal with (I think I need to shim the engine
up 8-12mm to resolve the issue)


As for tires, you are probably right, I just pulled a set of 60% tread Goodyear Wrangler RTS tires because they showed some slight dry-rot cracking in the sidewalls (that won't pass inspection) and replaced them with brand new BFG KO2's tires do make a difference...

AD

 

[Josh P]

My Borla headers which WERE laying on the ground getting snowed on (back in 2009), because the #4 primary tube cracked at the edge of the weld to the collector and the noise from the leak was drivine me crazier than I already am...


Well, the Borla's are back on the truck and have been for over a year...

The Hedman's are in the bottom drawer of my toolbox.

the Y-pipe has a clearance issue (cat flange VS Right side frame-rail)
which I am considering how to deal with (I think I need to shim the engine
up 8-12mm to resolve the issue)


As for tires, you are probably right, I just pulled a set of 60% tread Goodyear Wrangler RTS tires because they showed some slight dry-rot cracking in the sidewalls (that won't pass inspection) and replaced them with brand new BFG KO2's tires do make a difference...

AD

How do you like the borla compared to the hedman headers? I put a set of hedman headers on my 91 4.0L aerostar with a borla muffler. 4.10 rear end and a T5 transmission with a 3.75 first gear ratio.