Ship of Theseus

[Lefty]

The ship wherein Theseus returned from Crete was preserved by the Athenians down even to the time of Demetrius Phalereus, for they took away the old planks as they decayed, putting in new and stronger timber in their places, insomuch that this ship became a standing example among the philosophers, for the logical question of things that grow; one side holding that the ship remained the same, and the other contending that it was not.
— Plutarch, Theseus
Greek writer Plutarch questions whether a ship would remain the same if it were entirely replaced, piece by piece. Sometimes even I wonder about my old Ranger. I've been to the junk yard so many times, I've forgotten which part came from what truck. At least I kept photos of the donors. Here's a few. Maybe a better word sums it up: Frankentruck.

This year I hope to branch out just a little and pull some Mustang seats and an Explorer axle.

How about you? Have you begun to feel the same? What have you pulled? And from what? What's next on your junkyard wish list?

 

[Lefty]

Here's another junkyard find: a "new" headliner.

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

Interesting philosophical discussion here… I’ll have to give it some thought…

I don’t have pics of all the donors, but I have some for mine and I know where some of the parts came from. I’ve also gone different ways with different trucks. My F-150 is largely F-series parts for upgrades and repairs and appears mostly stock where my choptop is more Frankenstein. My green Ranger is getting Frankenstein work, but the end goal is to make it appear mostly stock.

So where really does one draw a line? If say in the repairs of the ship as quoted they replaced rotted wood with new wood from the same types of trees, wouldn’t that be like replacing a rotted body panel where it can be classed as more “cosmetic” than say, using a different wood or swapping an entire cab?

 

[Lefty]

Interesting philosophical discussion here… I’ll have to give it some thought…

I don’t have pics of all the donors, but I have some for mine and I know where some of the parts came from. I’ve also gone different ways with different trucks. My F-150 is largely F-series parts for upgrades and repairs and appears mostly stock where my choptop is more Frankenstein. My green Ranger is getting Frankenstein work, but the end goal is to make it appear mostly stock.

So where really does one draw a line? If say in the repairs of the ship as quoted they replaced rotted wood with new wood from the same types of trees, wouldn’t that be like replacing a rotted body panel where it can be classed as more “cosmetic” than say, using a different wood or swapping an entire cab?

Good question! Whenever I make a new add-on, upgrade, or pull a part, my wife raises the same. Her concern is that the old Ranger is just a sinking ship, that, after 19 years, I should just cut it free.

I spent over $10,000 last year, just on paint and body work. She asked, "What will happen when you need a new engine?"

I told her that a new engine would be only $3,000 or $4,000. She rolled her eyes as if to say, "ONLY?"

We may never recover what we put into cars and trucks, not unless we are serious collectors. So we need to weigh the cost of repairs and replacements against the price of a new "ship." Brand new would cost $30,000-$40,000. PLUS interest on the loan.

My thinking is most certainly counter trend. I bought the Ranger for $4,000.00 and spent maybe $15,000 on upgrades, improvements, and repairs. Now it looks and drives brand new. I don't have have an expensive loan, and certainly do not pay as much in insurance. So why send it to the bone yard?

If you have the skills, the time,and available cash, why not drive a Frankentruck?

 

[Ranger850]

I've thought about this concept with the Sarah nTuned videos of her rebuilding her Gram's Ranger. Complete frame swap. So is it really the same truck. If she did a motor swap, ( she didn't, but ...) Would it be the same truck? Would it still be her Gram's truck?

Another thought : Frame swapping a 2wd cab to a 4wd chassis, which truck is it anymore???

 

[DILLARD000]

Same debate for ourselves: every human cell likely gets replaced several times during a lifetime. Are we each the same person we were as a child, no but we do remember those times.

 

[Lefty]

I've thought about this concept with the Sarah nTuned videos of her rebuilding her Gram's Ranger. Complete frame swap. So is it really the same truck. If she did a motor swap, ( she didn't, but ...) Would it be the same truck? Would it still be her Gram's truck?

Another thought : Frame swapping a 2wd cab to a 4wd chassis, which truck is it anymore???

Funny: the whole idea of Frankentruck dawned on me while watching Sarah-N-Tuned. She saved and cleaned every last nut and bolt, except for the frame.

Once we become pro active about Repair, Repaint, and Replace, we soon discover we can't save everything. Gram's Ranger is no different than mine. It's a Frankentruck.

 

[Roert42]

If you have the skills, the time,and available cash, why not drive a Frankentruck?

Seems like the biggest thing for people about buying new vs rebuilding old is the money. You can buy a brand new $40K car/truck on a note. If you buy an old pos and spend $30K/40k on making it new again, you need the cash up front.

Plus with a new car, you don't have to chase down all the warranty stuff yourself, the dealer keeps tabs on that. With a do it yourself job you have a big book of receipts you have to keep tabs on.


I prefer frankintruck.

Sometimes it's not about preserving the original state of the machine, but using what you have on hand. Even if it takes twice as long and cost twice as much in the long run.

 

[Lefty]

Seems like the biggest thing for people about buying new vs rebuilding old is the money. You can buy a brand new $40K car/truck on a note. If you buy an old pos and spend $30K/40k on making it new again, you need the cash up front.

Plus with a new car, you don't have to chase down all the warranty stuff yourself, the dealer keeps tabs on that. With a do it yourself job you have a big book of receipts you have to keep tabs on.


I prefer frankintruck.

Sometimes it's not about preserving the original state of the machine, but using what you have on hand. Even if it takes twice as long and cost twice as much in the long run.

Well, if you always go to the dealers, then it may cost more to take care care of the Frankentruck, BUT if you are willing to do the work yourself, you are certain to save. For example, the local Ford dealership would have charged $465.00 for a new headliner The one which I pulled cost $11.00 and change. A new tailgate latch cost $400.00, but if you pull your own the price is $5.00. I wanted an upgraded new rear window , the kind which can be opened. The price was $230.00, but the pulled version was $30.00.

 

[Roert42]

Well, if you always go to the dealers, then it may cost more to take care care of the Frankentruck, BUT if you are willing to do the work yourself, you are certain to save. For example, the local Ford dealership would have charged $465.00 for a new headliner The one which I pulled cost $11.00 and change. A new tailgate latch cost $400.00, but if you pull your own the price is $5.00. I wanted an upgraded new rear window , the kind which can be opened. The price was $230.00, but the pulled version was $30.00.

I wasn't even really considering spending more or less money on something. Just that if you want to completely rebuild an old car you need all the cash up front verses pay over time deal with a new car.

 

[Lefty]

Most people don't always have a choice, but if a person always buys new and pays on loans, it can cost around $250, 000 in the course of a lifetime.

 

[Shran]

I agree that it makes sense to continue fixing things... I am disgusted with myself to know that I have spent somewhere around $5000 fixing up my DD '88 Ranger and it's got a basketball size hole in the floor, three colors of body panels, a litany of weird issues that I can't nail down, and others that I just don't want to fix. But I'm going on 8 years now and that spread out is only $52/month. That's WAY cheaper than a car loan... and I'm sure I can make some of my money back parting it out when (not if) the time comes... I have accepted that it's a disposable vehicle, it was pretty worn out when I got it, so I won't be heartbroken.

On the other hand I have 11 vehicles at my disposal so if something weird happens and it's down for months for research & repairs it's not the end of the world. Parts availability, knowledge, time, etc really contribute to the demise of our old trucks. If I was limited to owning just one vehicle, I'd have to get something that is newer and easier to find parts for. I have really fought it a few times.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Sounds kinda weird but I don't think my kitbashed truck is much different, just becoming what it always wanted to be.

Only the body and the frame are the same as when I got it.

Maybe because it has been strung out over decades and not all at once too.

 

[rumblecloud]

... Are we each the same person we were as a child, no but we do remember those times.

Just as we remember the truck that we choose to maintain and remember it as the original truck that we drove off the lot new/out of the driveway used/drug home from the yard/field/barn/garage.
Is the truck the same? Are you the same?
I drove this truck off the lot. It was the first new vehicle I ever bought with my own money.

My memory tells me this is the same ship and as long as I am captain, it will never sink.
IDGAF.
But...good discussion

 

[Roert42]

The same person/truck.

physically? no.

Physically very different, but still exactly the same none the less.