Rustys shop thread....

[19Walt93]

Before you drop the ceiling consider leaving it high enough for a lift. I added a 3rd bay to my garage about 15 years ago and kept the ceiling height at 8' like the other 2 stalls. Now that I'm 15 years older I kick my own butt for not planning on a lift. I agree that however big you think you need, you should go a little bigger.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

Before you drop the ceiling consider leaving it high enough for a lift. I added a 3rd bay to my garage about 15 years ago and kept the ceiling height at 8' like the other 2 stalls. Now that I'm 15 years older I kick my own butt for not planning on a lift. I agree that however big you think you need, you should go a little bigger.

The ceiling as it is is only 10ft or so to the rafters. Im not going to lower it, just enclose it. I dont think its high enough for a lift anyways.

 

[adsm08]

The ceiling as it is is only 10ft or so to the rafters. Im not going to lower it, just enclose it. I dont think its high enough for a lift anyways.

It's not. Most post lifts require a 12 ft minimum to even be installed, and I'm finding that they need about a 14 ft ceiling to be useful.

My bay at work is 12'3" floor to beam. The beam of the building is placed above my lift so that it doesn't interfere with anything but radio antennas, but the lighting is only about 13' or so and if I have something with a roof-rack or roof lighting (think police Explorer) I can hit the lights.

 

[1990RangerinSK]

Use 2 x 20 amp circuits when you wire in the outlets and every second outlet is on the opposite circuit.

I disagree. Wire it with (what's the stuff called that has two hot wires, one neutral, and one ground?). Then wire each outlet on it's own 20A circuit. (So if you're looking at a standard plugin with two outlets, that one plugin needs two circuits. Place your plugs so that each side wall has three, the back wall has one in the center, and the front wall has one on either side of the door. And, yes, I'd place a separate panel in the shop.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

I disagree. Wire it with (what's the stuff called that has two hot wires, one neutral, and one ground?). Then wire each outlet on it's own 20A circuit. (So if you're looking at a standard plugin with two outlets, that one plugin needs two circuits. Place your plugs so that each side wall has three, the back wall has one in the center, and the front wall has one on either side of the door. And, yes, I'd place a separate panel in the shop.

Yes, thats the way to do it. 12-3 would be 12 gauge with 3 insulated wires (black, white, red) and a bare ground. 12 gauge is the one to use for 20 amp circuits. You would use the black for one circuit and the red for the second circuit. The white is the nuetral or common. The bare wire is the ground. So as you wire in the outlets you would use the black on every second outlet and the red on the others. That way you are less likely to overload one circuit.

 

[1990RangerinSK]

Yes, thats the way to do it. 12-3 would be 12 gauge with 3 insulated wires (black, white, red) and a bare ground. 12 gauge is the one to use for 20 amp circuits. You would use the black for one circuit and the red for the second circuit. The white is the nuetral or common. The bare wire is the ground. So as you wire in the outlets you would use the black on every second outlet and the red on the others. That way you are less likely to overload one circuit.

That's not what I mean. What I mean is that each plugin is on it's own wire. So, if you have nine plugins, each with two outlets, you have eighteen breakers in the panel (not including what ever breakers you have for lighting), and nine wires (12/3) running out to the plugins, with each plugin being fed by it's own wire, and each outlet in each plugin wired on it's own individual circuit.

 

[Snoranger]

That's not what I mean. What I mean is that each plugin is on it's own wire. So, if you have nine plugins, each with two outlets, you have eighteen breakers in the panel (not including what ever breakers you have for lighting), and nine wires (12/3) running out to the plugins, with each plugin being fed by it's own wire, and each outlet in each plugin wired on it's own individual circuit.

That seems like way overkill... what the he!! are you running that needs 18 dedicated 20 amp circuits. You only have 2 hands, home many different things can you use at the same time?

 

[rusty ol ranger]

Im gonna go old school though and run mostly air tools....

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

That's not what I mean. What I mean is that each plugin is on it's own wire. So, if you have nine plugins, each with two outlets, you have eighteen breakers in the panel (not including what ever breakers you have for lighting), and nine wires (12/3) running out to the plugins, with each plugin being fed by it's own wire, and each outlet in each plugin wired on it's own individual circuit.

Ummm....
NO.
That is not necessary. I have never seen a shop wired that way. And I've been in a lot of shops. I'm not a certified electrician but have done enough wiring and have studied the code enough to know that is not necesary nor required. The only circuits needing a dedicated outlet in a shop are when you get into 240V like for air compressor (edit; air compressor needs to be hardwired in) or welding. Residential I think the only dedicated circuits are fridge and maybe dishwasher...I would have to check my books to be sure.

 

[Curious Hound]

I disagree. Wire it with (what's the stuff called that has two hot wires, one neutral, and one ground?). Then wire each outlet on it's own 20A circuit. (So if you're looking at a standard plugin with two outlets, that one plugin needs two circuits. Place your plugs so that each side wall has three, the back wall has one in the center, and the front wall has one on either side of the door. And, yes, I'd place a separate panel in the shop.

If you do that, it needs to be wired to a double pole breaker. That’s 2 breakers that are linked together so that if one trips, the other also trips. Otherwise, each circuit needs its own neutral wire - not shared.

National Electric Code requirement in the US.

 

[Curious Hound]

Ummm....
NO.
That is not necessary. I have never seen a shop wired that way. And I've been in a lot of shops. I'm not a certified electrician but have done enough wiring and have studied the code enough to know that is not necesary nor required. The only circuits needing a dedicated outlet in a shop are when you get into 240V like for air compressor (edit; air compressor needs to be hardwired in) or welding. Residential I think the only dedicated circuits are fridge and maybe dishwasher...I would have to check my books to be sure.

They’re not talking about requirements. They are making recommendations that would help prevent overloading a circuit. But, as mentioned, you’re not normally going to be running many tools simultaneously. I would recommend 3 or 4 circuits. If you’re running an electric heater on a chilly day, that should be one 20 amp circuit. Lights and battery chargers on another circuit. And at least one more for power tools like grinders, drills, drill press, etc. then use 220v circuits for welder and maybe air compressor. A 120v air compressor should probably be on its own circuit.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

Yes. Lights are normally run on their own circuit.
Welder and air compressor on their own circuit.
Dedicated heater circuit if its permanently mounted.
If a portable heater then most likely its 120V and max amps is 15A. If its 240 then the heater is most likely 30A and a dedicated outlet would be needed.
Like mentioned, the reason to run 2 20A outlet circuits is to prevent breakers tripping when using more than one tool at a time. And I can't see a one person shop ever using enough amps to need more than 2 outlet circuits. It just won't happen.
I would space the outlets about 4' apart. That way there is always an outlet within reach.

 

[Uncle Gump]

I only had one existing 20 amp circuit in my garage when we ran 220v for my compressor. So we pulled one additional 20 amp circuit. The original circuit runs lighting/garage door openers/fan/battery charger/radio/general stuff. The new one runs my tools including my Hobart 140. I just figure I'm typically only using one tool at a time. I haven't had any overload problems in 7 years.

 

[Curious Hound]

Let’s spend some more of Rusty’s money. What else should he have in this shop?

hydraulic press - 20ton or bigger

Metal shear and brake for when he starts replacing rusty sheet metal

A-frame gantry and chain fall for lifting motors

rockin stereo system

comfortable chair for “contemplating and planning”

refrigerator to keep the Gatorade cool and also for those “after the work is done” beverages to be consumed in the contemplating chair

 

[91stranger]

These last 6-8 posts about wiring outlets worry me about how the heck people wire up their own shit.... a breaker for each outlet is overkill... Most corded power tools (with the exception of heat guns) aren't gonna blow a 20a outlet even if you have a 5 guy crew running tools non stop. You can get 220v air compressors cheaper than 110v in my experience. 220v=2 hot wires, 1 neutral, 1 ground. Watch your wiring.... Not sure if you have an RV or trailer but they are 30 or 50 amp outlets BUT they are wired to 110v not 220v. About twice a year we get an RV that was plugged into 220v and they lost their converter, fridge, ac, microwave etc.