Oil pump question

[PetroleumJunkie412]

After a LOT of fighting today, broke the engine free of the trans (4.0 clutch is going to have to wait - the one I thought I smoked out is still perfect - go figure).

Found some sh*t in the oil pan - mostly debris from abrasive wheels (awesome, you idiot ?) a piece of metal half the size of a Dime (no clue, and can't find what it goes to; probably a chunk of the junk lifters I put in), and a few pieces of plastic that roughly resemble a very tiny, narrow ladder. No idea what those are either. Just gonna send it.



Either way. Does anyone know if there is a gasket that goes between the oil pump and the block? New one didn't come with one, and I can't tell if the old pump ever had one.




Also, does anyone know what the hell the tech section is talking about with flipping the "half moon thrust plate" behind the cam sprocket? Have the timing cover off to replace the diamond power (Chinese sh*t) timing set with a Cloyes, would like to flip whatever the hell this is before I throw everything back together.

 

[RonD]

Yes, should be 2 gaskets with a new pump, pump to block, pump to pickup tube

Thrust plate or thrust bearing limits movement of a crank or a cam forward or backwards

In this case, a 2.9l, it should be behind the cam timing gear on front end of the cam

 

[Paulos]

I never thought it was a good idea to "flip" the camshaft thrust plate. Doing so would prevent lubrication to the slot in the camshaft that the plate fits in. I haven't been able to find a new replacement either.

 

[PetroleumJunkie412]

Yes, should be 2 gaskets with a new pump, pump to block, pump to pickup tube

Thrust plate or thrust bearing limits movement of a crank or a cam forward or backwards

In this case, a 2.9l, it should be behind the cam timing gear on front end of the cam

Well. That may explain my low oil pressure. New pump didn't come with a gasket, either.

Think I can get away with gasket maker, or would it be worth my time to make one?

I never thought it was a good idea to "flip" the camshaft thrust plate. Doing so would prevent lubrication to the slot in the camshaft that the plate fits in. I haven't been able to find a new replacement either.

Thought that was it. There's minimal oil on the front of the block where the plate word block oil flow. Looms like mine is not worn out. I may just leave it be and see if the new pump takes care of things.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

I would make one. If any gasket maker oozed out it could block passages.

 

[Paulos]

After looking at my bare 2.9 block there's another oil gallery above the cam that is completely blocked by the thrust plate. If the plate was rotated 180° and the upper oil gallery was pressurized (I believe it's the oil gallery that feeds the lifters), it appears that oil would lube the thrust plate from the lifter oil gallery instead of the camshaft oil gallery. Would that make enough of a difference? I doubt it. If the plate was flipped, it would probably help oil pressure, but then you get no oil to the thrust plate in the slot of the cam.

If your thrust plate shows minimal wear and the end play of your cam is close to spec, you most likely aren't loosing much in the way of oil pressure there anyway. I just read a few posts on other forums where one guy discovered that the ticking in his 2.9 was caused by loose valve spring retainers, another said his was due to worn valve guides, and another said a leaking exhaust manifold caused his, and another was stated his ticking was definitely caused by plugged up rocker arm shafts. So, it appears that the "ticking" is not necessarily caused by one particular problem (e.g. cam bearings). I do know that when I rebuild my 2.9 I'll be putting in the cam bearings that have the oil passage on the outside of the bearings.

 

[Dirtman]

Every oil pump I've ever installed had a gasket. Like alwaysfloored said, make one from paper not sealant. I'm a big advocate of never using sealant on parts connecting to the oil system except where required by design. (Oil pan corners on multi peice gaskets).

 

[G8orFord]

I don't remember ever installing a gasket between an oil pump and the block. I know my 4.0 doesn't (and didn't) have one. I don't think a SBF has one and I know SBC's don't have them. They are both machined surfaces and should not need one. If there is a slight leak, it's just going back in the pan.

FWIW, my 4.0 held 80 psi with no problem turning the pump about 1000 rpm with a drill.

 

[PetroleumJunkie412]

It's in. Made a paper gasket for it. Engine is back in as well.

Tossed a Cloyes timing set in as well. I'll probably post this separately, but DO NOT USE A "DIAMOND POWER" TIMING SET. You uh... You get what you pay for.

Just have to solve the fuel line issue, and I'm back on the road.

Thanks all. Didn't know what to do with this one. Appreciate the advice greatly.