Notched frame vs V8?

[koda6966]

Hey guys, still working out the kinks in the plans for my project truck I plan to do in the next couple years.

There's two major things that I want to do, they are to do a EFI V8/T5 swap, and to bag and drop the truck. (Planning on this being a damaged 4th gen so I can get it cheap and have a good project)

Now, was wondering was will I have to reinforce the frame of the truck so that it will be able to stand up to the forces of the V8? I've heard that you should reinforce even the normal frame. Also, how are the legality issues of frame notches/street capability?

 

[Hazmat Ranger]

Hey Koda

There have been numerous notches installed and in various ways. The number one thing to remember is you are modifying the frame - the skeleton/spine of your ride - this has to be done CORRECTLY or the spine will FAIL. Adding a V8 at the same time means more strength must be built into the frame. My recommendation would be to:

1 - Build a frame from 2" X 4" Boxed steel

2 - Box the factory frame with plate steel

3 - Build a tubular steel frame

The easiest would be to box the frame, but it will still involve the notch in the rear, bag mounts in the front and rear, air tank mounts and many other considerations.

Example of a Box Steel Frame:

Here is a stock frame that is boxed in (yes it is a 4x4, but it shows the idea)

A tubular Custom Rear Half

Check out this site for more on a custom frame http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?p=90297

Good Luck Man

 

[koda6966]

Thanks Hazmat. Since this will be mostly a personal project I'll probably go with the boxed frame. It's a lot more simple and seems easier to work with, also it's what I was thinking would be good but I wanted to get a few recommendations in.

I'll make sure to become confident with a welder way before I even attempt this, and if I don't feel sure about myself doing it I'll have my father come up and do it. He was a certified welder back in the day. Still does all his own welds when he gets the chance.

The time frame for this project starts in the 2011-2012 slot, so any and all ideas are open for change and adjustment but it will definitely happen. I've been collecting information the past few months on the parts and tools I'll need and making a list in my Project book, along with sketches and diagrams. I was originally going to go with a static drop but then I thought more about it and I want to be able to drop it to the ground but still have functionality, make it a show truck as well as a summer ride. I'll have it be something to keep me occupied after college. Since work will take a chunk of my day I need something to do on my insomniac nights other than online gaming. God that's horrible stuff to get addicted to.

 

[Hazmat Ranger]

I hear you Brother - I am currently building a Nissan 240SX for fun. I picked up a spare engine recently and today I got some ( - a - ) head :rofl: to start reworking. This way I can actually keep the car together and build the engine as I want and not have to rush it.

If I was you, I would begin by finding a chassis or frame. Start boxing it in where is will not be modified for the notch. Set it up in a jig and begin the notch using tube or boxed steel not the original rails. When boxing the factory rails keep in mind what used to run through them - fuel and electrical. I have seen guys use steel pipe or tubing and graft it into the rail (inside) and have openings to pass wires or tubing through. They look awesome when done right and really cleans up the underside of all those wires and such.

Good Luck man . . .

 

[koda6966]

Hmm.. possibly some small channel welded to the plating (or into it) would work. Into it would be best because it would be flush as possible. I could see that working out nicely, although I have no clue what it would do to the structural integrity of the plating or how I would attach the wires/lines so that they would stay in place.

If I can't find channel small enough, I could always just cut a side of of some square tubing. The excess would get used.. somewhere.

 

[Hazmat Ranger]

Example 1:

I cannot find any other pics right now, but you would weld some 1/2" to 3/4" tubing inside the frame rail and angle it out, flush cut it, cut the box plates, mark location of tubing opening, cut opening and weld plate onto rail thus boxing it in and then you weld the ends of the tubing to the plate giving you a hidden wire chase. The fuel and brake lines can be run the same way but add AN bulkhead fittings where they enter and exit the rails. So when you look under the truck HEY where are your wires and tubing . . . tell them your truck has a wireless system -

I wish I could find more on it - hope this explains it - I am off to bed - Later Koda

 

[littleme13]

if your really worried about the strength of the frame with a "C" notch just 4 link the rear and it takes most fo the stress off the back half of the frame. still box it and everthing like tis been mentioned, but the stresses from a v8 wont affect it anymore.

 

[constant_projecttruck]

that T5 will throw a lot of torque at the frame on hard launchs. My friend didn't twist anyhting with a chevy 350 and a T5 from an S10 with a notched and boxed frame...but did grenade the tranny. LOL you play xbox 360 too from 1 am till 6 am? add me up if you want LOL.

 

[koda6966]

. LOL you play xbox 360 too from 1 am till 6 am? add me up if you want LOL.

huh?

 

[constant_projecttruck]

Since work will take a chunk of my day I need something to do on my insomniac nights other than online gaming. God that's horrible stuff to get addicted to.

im an 8th prestige in call of duty WAW....my excuse is its winter.

 

[TS6034]

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You'll do fine with the stock frame boxed. If you run a four link, the stress from the V-8 is ahead of the notches anyway. The frame from the front mounting point of the four link back supports the box/fuel cell/ etc. Shouldn't be alot of stress back there.

 

[Hazmat Ranger]

A 4 Link will absorb and distribute ALL of the torque going through the chassis?

Of course these are full framed vehicles, but I have seen uni-bodied cars (Camaro and Firebirds) get twisted in the B-Pillar from the torque of a big engine - not saying Koda is going Pro-Street , but just a thought on my part.

 

[bottledgt]

jeez,,,you dont have to box a damn thing to do a v8 swap...i doubt he is talking about 6-700 hp.

 

[koda6966]

jeez,,,you dont have to box a damn thing to do a v8 swap...i doubt he is talking about 6-700 hp.

I'm talking about a stock explorer 5.0. Probably won't get into too many mods.

I thought it would be best to reinforce the frame, since I would be cutting and welding it, causing it to have weak points.

 

[Beanmachine7000]

A 4 Link will absorb and distribute ALL of the torque going through the chassis?

Of course these are full framed vehicles, but I have seen uni-bodied cars (Camaro and Firebirds) get twisted in the B-Pillar from the torque of a big engine - not saying Koda is going Pro-Street , but just a thought on my part.

Actually I'm pretty sure there is a small amount of wrinkling in the rear quarters of my F-body due to engine torque... Not sure though...