new fuel economy standards

[OilPatch197]

I wouldn't mind electric vehicles.

Would our electric Grid handle this load? I mean they have problems already during peak AC use, could it handle another 300 million electric cars charging?

 

[Ozwynn]

How much does your fuel economy go down when you have the lights and heater on in your truck? It's the same thing.

I have a 200 amp alternator and dual batteries...... I don't see a difference. you wouldn't with a hybrid either unless better than 50% of your driving was done under those conditions.

 

[triumphrider-1]

Would our electric Grid handle this load? I mean they have problems already during peak AC use, could it handle another 300 million electric cars charging?

A lot of the recharging could be done during "off-hours" (i.e. night time) when the load on the grid is a fraction of what it is during the day time hours.

That said it wouldn't hurt to have a little beefier system if every car were switched to electric; but that probably won't happen over night.

 

[swamprat]

Would our electric Grid handle this load? I mean they have problems already during peak AC use, could it handle another 300 million electric cars charging?

Umm, no. Unless they are charged at night after peak times. So after midnight or so. But what about people who live in the city or apartment? Where do they plug in at? What if you have to comute to work? Could you charge at work? Or power grid is weak. Power consumption has risen over the last decade and power plant construction has decline over the same time.

Here is my problem with electric cars. Electric cars has no pollution. but what about the pollution from the power plants. Coal trucks. The mining equipement. Disposal of the battery packs. We could build more Nuclear power plants but nobody wants one near their house. Either way there is a price to pay

 

[OilPatch197]

A lot of the recharging could be done during "off-hours" (i.e. night time) when the load on the grid is a fraction of what it is during the day time hours.

That said it wouldn't hurt to have a little beefier system if every car were switched to electric; but that probably won't happen over night.

That being said I would much, MUCH rather have electric cars and huge upgrades to the electric grid/generation rather than forcing the ethanol farce down our throats! (of which most plants have failed)

 

[mentalbreakdown00]

Ya'll talk about the pollution a certain vehicle produces. Now I don't know how to word this well, but it took a lot less polution at the factory to prduce my 1998 than it does an 09 hybrid. So to me mine has paid off it's initail pollution production and every year hereafter is just the pollution from tires, oil, and fuel. Now the newer hybrids, taking, more metals, batteries, etc. to produce will have to run longer to pay thier production pollution. So why not adapt what we have now (5 yr and older), to hybrid, regenerative braking vehicles with used scrap metals and such? I hope someone understand what I am trying to convey, I am just a stupid mechanic. Now to the power grid, if our wonderful government would have invested the 10 million into better power production/ distribution instead of studying if cow and pig farts have a big impact on the ozone we'd be further along on that subject wouldn't we.

 

[AllanD]

My thought is to stock up on spare engines and other parts and
store them very carefully against future need...

but I was going to do that anyway

AD

 

[triumphrider-1]

Umm, no. Unless they are charged at night after peak times. So after midnight or so. But what about people who live in the city or apartment? Where do they plug in at? What if you have to comute to work? Could you charge at work? Or power grid is weak. Power consumption has risen over the last decade and power plant construction has decline over the same time.

Here is my problem with electric cars. Electric cars has no pollution. but what about the pollution from the power plants. Coal trucks. The mining equipement. Disposal of the battery packs. We could build more Nuclear power plants but nobody wants one near their house. Either way there is a price to pay

Thats where a lot of grid work would need to be done (running extension cords from the owners house to their car is not a solution). Parking lots/garages would need to have plug in locations at the parking spaces, and then metered so they know what you used while at work, shopping, dining, etc.

The "well to wheels" calculations take into account the amount of pollution created while an electric vehicle is charging via coal,oil, natural gas, nuclear, or whatever type of plant (and from what I've seen the return is actually decent). My big issue is the battery packs. They are not really efficient, and they are a hazard once they are worn out. Granted they can be recycled but not all of it is reused. Capacitors could be the next big step from batteries but we'll see.

Personally, I would like to see more nuclear plants. There have been many advances in the fuels they use and are a "clean" source of energy.

That being said I would much, MUCH rather have electric cars and huge upgrades to the electric grid/generation rather than forcing the ethanol farce down our throats! (of which most plants have failed)

To me, ethanol is only a peice of the puzzle; and no offense to corn growers, but corn is not best suited for ethanol. I would prefer we used switchgrass instead.

Ya'll talk about the pollution a certain vehicle produces. Now I don't know how to word this well, but it took a lot less polution at the factory to prduce my 1998 than it does an 09 hybrid. So to me mine has paid off it's initail pollution production and every year hereafter is just the pollution from tires, oil, and fuel. Now the newer hybrids, taking, more metals, batteries, etc. to produce will have to run longer to pay thier production pollution. So why not adapt what we have now (5 yr and older), to hybrid, regenerative braking vehicles with used scrap metals and such? I hope someone understand what I am trying to convey, I am just a stupid mechanic. Now to the power grid, if our wonderful government would have invested the 10 million into better power production/ distribution instead of studying if cow and pig farts have a big impact on the ozone we'd be further along on that subject wouldn't we.

What you said makes perfect sense, and is true, there are a couple of studies out there that review this (thou I don't remember what their conclusions were, sorry). I think what their looking at is if you traded your truck in and bought one of these brand new ones. By purchasing it you will be emitting less pollution per mile as well as using less fuel; so in the long haul your net emission production will be lower (not to mention your wallet will be lighter).

As for the animal methane production study...PETA

 

[Toms01PSD]

I wouldn't mind electric vehicles. I am a fan of the volt idea, but will never own another GM in my life, plain and simple. I would like the option of more cars like the smart in America built by american companies with some sort of hybrid tech. Let me ask ya'll this, why is it a lot of european companies make a host of 100 mpg cars, but cannot import them #1 cause of our emissions standards won't let them?!?! #2 cause of our safety standards. Now, i'm not trying to imply our governments intentions on safety standards, but if I want a aluminum can with wheels, is it not my right to own one? Isn't a motorcycle the same with less protection...

There are a LOT of diesel cars in europe. My grandfather has a Skoda diesel and gets better mileage than a damn Prius. It's sad that most people see diesel as nasty and smelly. My sister, just tonight, was talking about how we should get a hybrid. Besides just about kickin her in the rear, I told her we should get a diesel instead of a hybrid and she thinks what half the damn country thinks, they are "bad". She knows nothing about engines, just the BS toyota puts on TV. Safety standards are the main reason they can't come in, even though it's mandatory in England to have turn signals on your fenders. When we lived there a local shop had to install them. They don't require airbags everywhere like we do, but if you've been to Europe and driven the roads then you know why, two completely road networks between here and there.

 

[mentalbreakdown00]

Nope never been out of the country, too much of it for me to explore in my lifetime, let alone anouther country. I'm not talking about trading in vehicles for a newer one. I am talking about adapting our older vehicles to newer standards. There is no reason we cannot use scrap yard metals to produce hybrid kits with regenerative braking into our older vehicles. Now the only thing is the battery tech is waaay lacking, and the second fact i do a lot more highway driving then ciity because of my geographic locations so it would make me lose mileage. Unless we converted to similar of what a volt has about 40 miles at 35-30 mph or so without an engine coming on, would mean no gas for me....woooo

 

[rusty ol ranger]

Say goodbye to V8 Engines and Torque.

later,
Dustin

 

[flyingbrick]

What I want to know about hybrids is what happens when you have to run with all the lights on and the heater running full blast. I'll bet the fuel consumption goes down the toilet. Those conditions would be about half the year here.

Tomorrow I'll look for the newspaper clipping, but a local paper here tested 2 Honda Accords in our winter, and the non hybrid did much better for mileage then the hybrid due to the extreme cold making the engine run no matter what and the extra weight of the batteries/motor.

 

[martin]

The thing I keep hearing about huybrids is you can drive twenty or so miles without the gas engine even starting up. I don't see this happening when the windows are covered with ice and it's difficult to drive when you can't see where you're going. Electric vehicles would be even worse, the batteries would be flat before you got the windows de'iced, assuming they worked at all due to the extreme cold. The heat that is produced by a gas vehicle has to be dissipated and de-icing windows and interiors is a handy, free, by product.

 

[mentalbreakdown00]

Hey Martin, that's why I live down here in god's country. Our record low is like 23 or so, and our winters usually last 2-3 weeks

 

[Jason]

The new regs are not going to do much good for any automaker in the US but it won't kill them either. They just have to work harder and use those engineering degrees.

While my Ranger is getting its facelift in the body shop I have a crew cab Silverado (4x4 V-8) for a rental. Now I have run 5 tanks of gas through that truck and have been amazed to pull 19.8 MPG average including about 40% city driving. If that hunk of crap can do that, the Ranger should be able to get near 30 highway with a decent gas engine. The F-150 should be able to hit the magic number with little effort. I bet if I drove that Chevy at 55 on the highway, it would come damn close to 23 no matter what the window sticker says so not much improvement would be needed. My Altima is rated at 29mpg highway yet I averaged 33 mpg from Buffalo to Olathe, KS and back running nearly 75 the whole time. IIRC it is now measured at 55 mph.