Need some painting advice

[RangerReviver1990]

So, I've never painted cars in my life and I want to strip the 3 layers of paint off of my truck and respray it to it's original two tone shadow gray with silver fenders/bottom stripe. But as I'm think about it, how would I go about painting it? Would I paint the entire thing gray, let it dry and then spray the the silver across the fenders and across the bottom? And how I would I also attempt to cover the body up so I can paint said fenders without the lines looking uneven or wavey?

 

[Brain75]

I am in the same boat, painted houses, painted other stuff but never a car... I tell you what I have done so far, watched tons of youtube videos and learned what causes paintjobs to fail and how to avoid em... In a nutshell:
PREP - do all the metalwork, then all the bondo work, then prime, then follow the manufacturer's guide. I picked Daytona Blue Metallic by TCP Global. THEY (TCP Global) says to NOT use a self etching primer - so check, don't do the big thing they say not to do. THEY (TCP Global) say to seal it so nothing will come through, check using their sealer, use their paint, use their clearcoat, etc etc - follow the whole system. You want piss poor results, mix systems when you are a total novice - the pro's who have done it 1000 times can stray but they have learned the hard way and learned what they can get away with.
99% of the quality of the paint is the prep.
You have to get 100% of the grime off, all the oil, dirt, grease, organics, and inorganics, and it is more than just a U-do car wash. It involves a cleaning system (the pro's use a multi step - sprayway glass cleaner + inorganics cleaner).
You have to get a good solid layer or the paint to bond to, so if the car has ever been waxed it means stripping the wax off. Scuffing up the paint.. you don't HAVE to take all 3 layers off, but going as deep as you want, it is up to you.
If you have peeling paint then you have to get underneath it or else your new paint will bubble & peel up - and it's not the new paints fault it is the flaking underneath it.
My clear coat is 60-70% gone - so I had to get down under it.

TCP Global is the guys behind the curtains of Restoration Shop btw - you can pick whoever you want, but Restoration Shop / TCP will custom match if you contact their tech line. And my experience so far is they are pretty good at hand holding us n00bs.
If your door jambs are factory color you don't have to open them up and shoot the jambs, but if you are like me and changing colors drastically it will make it look a lot better and professional.

Two tone is very difficult I understand and pinstripe at the color break is the way to go for us novices - but you have to decide if you want that look first.

I considered two tone, but decided against it as the youtube videos I watched made it look more art and technique than method. I am not an artist.

Some of those youtube videos I watched show you how to do a DIY at home without buying professional supplies (i.e. home depot plastic and newspapers instead of the expensive car bags that bag the whole car). It can be done, but definitely need to get all the knowledge you can before you start.

 

[RangerReviver1990]

Speaking of scuffing up the paint, almost all of the exterior body panels are painted with black Rust-Oleum. But since it's starting to flake off, on certain sections you can see the forest green, on others you can see the gray and silver and I wanted to see if I could carefully scrape the first 2 layers to get to the original paint, but I've mainly told that it's not possible

 

[pentode]

This is a sincere question: do you want it to be perfect? How close to perfect do you need it to be? Do you have a paint booth?
There are a few ways you can go about it but it all depends on how amazing you want the finished product to be.
The only way you'll get to the original paint by scraping is if the next guy did a really terrible job of prepping the surface... at which point you will have scratched the original paint.
You will need to sand down until you're as you want it to be because every single imperfection will show through the new paint. Then, wipe it down with a tack cloth, then you can prime and paint. You'll need judicious use of good quality painter's tape, paint the base layer and then tape off and do the trim color.
If you can live with "good enough" you can do it with spray cans, if you want show quality, well, there are a whole bunch more steps you need to do. I'm sure there are guys who will jump in with detailed answers if you want to go pro level.

 

[RobbieD]

Speaking of scuffing up the paint, almost all of the exterior body panels are painted with black Rust-Oleum. But since it's starting to flake off, on certain sections you can see the forest green, on others you can see the gray and silver and I wanted to see if I could carefully scrape the first 2 layers to get to the original paint, but I've mainly told that it's not possible

You're going to have to strip off the Rustoleum, and that's going to take some time.

Get yourself a plug-in electric "quarter sheet" DA sander. These take standard sheets of sandpaper, quartered, are relatively inexpensive and work very well (I use a Makita brand that I've had probably 30 years now). You can do a panel at a time, and if you can scrape the old paint in some spots, that's great but you'll still need to finish sand the surface.

Just use spray bomb primer until you've stripped the whole truck. Then you can start thinking about the painting part. You gotta put the horse in front of the cart; just focus first on getting it ready for paint.

In the process of stripping the truck and getting it ready for the paint, you will be gaining some experience which will make things easier as you go. That's an important thing.

Here's where I did a cheap paint job on one of mine about a hundred years ago:
https://www.therangerstation.com/forums/index.php?threads/the-old-girl-gets-a-cheap-facelift.54998/
Yes, I used tractor paint. At the time, the "good stuff" tractor paint was about $50 a gallon. In fact, I think that it was cheaper than Rustoleum.

There's a lot of posts on here like that that can be "search"ed out, that will help you out with tips and info. Painting is more patience, than rocket surgery.

 

[Brain75]

There is no chance of scrapping off the 2 outer layers and getting anything usable from the first layer, unless they waxed it first then painted it with latex house paint.

Since the previous guy mentioned it I will address the rattle can in the room... there are basically 2 types of paints Enamels and Urethanes. You can do an Enamel in a rattle can or an Enamel from like Tractor supply or such - just about anywhere, it will last ~5-10 ish years give or take garaging/sunshine and the quality of the paint and then fade and look crappy. Urethane's do come in cans but they are activator cans - the kind you take a red button of the top put it underneath the can and compress it popping an interior burst tube which releases the activator. Last a lot longer than an enamel job but cost 99% the same as stuff from a pro shop like TCP. My complete order is gonna be $700 ish for paint, clear, sealer, bedliner, and clear coat for the rims including taxes and shipping... Taxes and shipping are like $100 of that. You do NOT want to buy paint from amazon, even a reputable dealer. Amazon has a zero return / zero refund policy on paint since it is hazardous shipping.... Go fig, "safe" for USPS to get it to you, but "not safe" for USPS to send it back.
All the paint "merchants" on amazon know this and have no qualms about sending dented/leaking/trash cans cause they have your money no matter what..

Depending if you want a square sander or a round sander (i.e. you do woodwork), I have no idea if a square or round is cheaper. I got a 5" round and some DRY paper just to get the clear off and get it down to solid something the paint will bond to.

It is totally up to you how much you want to spend in TIME and money... personally since I am investing a ton of time getting it very sharp looking, I am gonna splurge and spend the money on a paint that will last more than a few years. If you want to shortcut the time investment then buy cheaper paint by all means. I just couldn't justify knowing that I spent a lot of time getting the hail dents pounded out only to cover it with something that would look crappy in a few and need redone.

I watched a "$60 tractor supply paint job" video on youtube the guy took a square body GMC and painted it gloss white, it looked sharp, but he spent a ton of time and money on bodywork
and new marker lights etc. I know those tractor supply paints last way better than other enamels, but they are still enamels and their life is shorter than a good UA-UrethaneAcrylic. (When I say I know - it is cause I have used a lot of John Deere Green in my farmin years.) The video I mentioned is $60 for just the paint alone, not one single supply past that. He owned the gun, had reducer on hand, had a spare gun, and bought cab corner repairs etc etc - it had to cost a pretty penny more than $60.

To put it in perspective my $700 paint job is gonna be closer to $1500 - cause I did not have hammers and dollys, I didn't have bondo supplies, etc. That included a "new" front bumper from the yard, etc etc - I had my share of body expenses beyond 'just the paint' and I chose to do some upgrades as well.

 

[Brain75]

I bought all the supplies (paint gun, hammer and dolly, etc) because I have a 2nd labor of love to tackle some day.

The wheels are the correct color Ford "Meadow Green" the truck's original color - the whole body is my sisyphean task, getting rid of that 80's metallic and back to proper 1948.

 

[RangerReviver1990]

You're going to have to strip off the Rustoleum, and that's going to take some time.

Get yourself a plug-in electric "quarter sheet" DA sander. These take standard sheets of sandpaper, quartered, are relatively inexpensive and work very well (I use a Makita brand that I've had probably 30 years now). You can do a panel at a time, and if you can scrape the old paint in some spots, that's great but you'll still need to finish sand the surface.

Just use spray bomb primer until you've stripped the whole truck. Then you can start thinking about the painting part. You gotta put the horse in front of the cart; just focus first on getting it ready for paint.

In the process of stripping the truck and getting it ready for the paint, you will be gaining some experience which will make things easier as you go. That's an important thing.

Here's where I did a cheap paint job on one of mine about a hundred years ago:
https://www.therangerstation.com/forums/index.php?threads/the-old-girl-gets-a-cheap-facelift.54998/
Yes, I used tractor paint. At the time, the "good stuff" tractor paint was about $50 a gallon. In fact, I think that it was cheaper than Rustoleum.

There's a lot of posts on here like that that can be "search"ed out, that will help you out with tips and info. Painting is more patience, than rocket surgery.

There is no chance of scrapping off the 2 outer layers and getting anything usable from the first layer, unless they waxed it first then painted it with latex house paint.

Since the previous guy mentioned it I will address the rattle can in the room... there are basically 2 types of paints Enamels and Urethanes. You can do an Enamel in a rattle can or an Enamel from like Tractor supply or such - just about anywhere, it will last ~5-10 ish years give or take garaging/sunshine and the quality of the paint and then fade and look crappy. Urethane's do come in cans but they are activator cans - the kind you take a red button of the top put it underneath the can and compress it popping an interior burst tube which releases the activator. Last a lot longer than an enamel job but cost 99% the same as stuff from a pro shop like TCP. My complete order is gonna be $700 ish for paint, clear, sealer, bedliner, and clear coat for the rims including taxes and shipping... Taxes and shipping are like $100 of that. You do NOT want to buy paint from amazon, even a reputable dealer. Amazon has a zero return / zero refund policy on paint since it is hazardous shipping.... Go fig, "safe" for USPS to get it to you, but "not safe" for USPS to send it back.
All the paint "merchants" on amazon know this and have no qualms about sending dented/leaking/trash cans cause they have your money no matter what..

Depending if you want a square sander or a round sander (i.e. you do woodwork), I have no idea if a square or round is cheaper. I got a 5" round and some DRY paper just to get the clear off and get it down to solid something the paint will bond to.

It is totally up to you how much you want to spend in TIME and money... personally since I am investing a ton of time getting it very sharp looking, I am gonna splurge and spend the money on a paint that will last more than a few years. If you want to shortcut the time investment then buy cheaper paint by all means. I just couldn't justify knowing that I spent a lot of time getting the hail dents pounded out only to cover it with something that would look crappy in a few and need redone.

I watched a "$60 tractor supply paint job" video on youtube the guy took a square body GMC and painted it gloss white, it looked sharp, but he spent a ton of time and money on bodywork
and new marker lights etc. I know those tractor supply paints last way better than other enamels, but they are still enamels and their life is shorter than a good UA-UrethaneAcrylic. (When I say I know - it is cause I have used a lot of John Deere Green in my farmin years.) The video I mentioned is $60 for just the paint alone, not one single supply past that. He owned the gun, had reducer on hand, had a spare gun, and bought cab corner repairs etc etc - it had to cost a pretty penny more than $60.

To put it in perspective my $700 paint job is gonna be closer to $1500 - cause I did not have hammers and dollys, I didn't have bondo supplies, etc. That included a "new" front bumper from the yard, etc etc - I had my share of body expenses beyond 'just the paint' and I chose to do some upgrades as well.

Yeah, I've also seen all these guys painting their vehicles with tractor supply paint or painting it with Rust-Oleum and stuff like that. I looked at RonnieD's ranger painted with tractor paint and it looks promising, I might have to look into that. I want it to look half ass decent but not break the bank because I ain't got that much money

 

[Brain75]

Paints are getting better all the time, and looking at @RobbieD 's I have to wonder if Enamels are good enough now a days. He just hit 15yrs and I would love to know how well it held up and what condition it was kept (garaged, waxed, etc)

There is a ton of history here, the EPA banning everything that worked, paint becoming really really crappy for a decade (remember Chevy's slogan in the 80's, "the great american peeling"), then slowly paint getting better and better.
My local tractor supply dropped all paints except rustoleum and they want $60 /gal for the cheapest tractor paint - the only tractor paint they carry now compared to RobbieD's $30 in 2009.

 

[RobbieD]

Paints are getting better all the time, and looking at @RobbieD 's I have to wonder if Enamels are good enough now a days. He just hit 15yrs and I would love to know how well it held up and what condition it was kept (garaged, waxed, etc)

There is a ton of history here, the EPA banning everything that worked, paint becoming really really crappy for a decade (remember Chevy's slogan in the 80's, "the great american peeling"), then slowly paint getting better and better.
My local tractor supply dropped all paints except rustoleum and they want $60 /gal for the cheapest tractor paint - the only tractor paint they carry now compared to RobbieD's $30 in 2009.

I updated the "Old Girl" thread, with how the cheap paint held up.

That '48 is a killer. If I had kids, I'd offer you the trade of a first-born for it. Wanna trade it for an '84 Ranger?

 

[Brain75]

You still in the prep stage, not yet mixed anything?

 

[Brain75]

Someone just revived this thread for me by giving a like to a comment, so I thought I would update here (I've been considering doing a big painting thread).
As many of you know I squeeked getting the paint done on the last decent weather day of the year (unheated, uninsulated shop) - and I mean really squeeked.

Before

After

I'm going to start off by answering probably the two biggest questions you guys are likely to ask:
How much did I spend?
$1240
I had to buy basically everything except the "stuff most of us have on hand"... I did not buy painters plastic, newspapers, etc - common stuff those of us who have painted houses / own a house have extras of laying around... The one thing you might not have on hand I didn't have to pay for was a respirator. I helped rehab a flooded mold filled house for my mom years ago and she had em still from that project. I did not buy any tyvek suits either.. I picked my worse set of skin tight clothes extra and wore that one set for the whole project and pitched em afterwards. I kept an excel spreadsheet of expense and I am about $2900 total into it when you count everything - the differences are non-paint stuff, bucket seats, new windshield, etc.

What do I regret / what do I wish I had done differently?
I have two answers immediately.
1) I wish I had gone with tractor supply paint for this one, because it is my first job, it wasn't going to be perfect, I needed to practice and hone my body/bondo skills more - why put expensive paint over novice body work.
2) I wish I had spent more time on it. I pushed and pushed to get it done before temps dropped and snow fell, and I missed some things and made some mistakes.
Example: There is a big long nasty scratch on the drivers fender - can't see it, can't feel it, but the instant I put the sealer on it showed.... I stopped and sanded it way down, past the grey sealer, the tan base coat, down into the deepest layer of thick tough factory primer, thought I had it and re-shot sealer over it... instead of a 2' long scratch I have a 4" scratch and said "gonna live with it, snow is about to fly, gotta get this done"... well that kind of being rushed showed up 3 or 4 times elsewhere.
During cut&buff I also burned completely through the clear and even through the basecoat in 3 spots, you can see 2 of em in the hood above - right on the edge where the hood meets the grill.

Done differently... That's easy, I wish I had done all the body and bondo in the fall, shot sealer over it, and then let it sit till spring since I didn't have enough time... the stuff that I rushed over and didn't do a good job would have gnawed at my ass until I fixed em right - I.E. The fender scratch would have gotten gone over again.

The hood shows the absolute worst of my body skills.. I started on the roof and spent forever getting the 1000 hail dents out of it, then worked all around the body leaving the hood till last(the hood was the worst, figured my skills would be better by the time I got there)... I got pissed and frustrated and sick of banging away on it and started bondo... same thing hood was dead last and eventually I said "F it, it will be what it will be!".

My own thoughts, comments, advice:
#1 lighter colors hide body work, white hides the most body work
#2 darker colors show more flaws, black shows everything
For your first ever paint job, might want to consider pure white or at least a very light color... I owned a white car (still do), and it looks dirty the instant a raindrop or splatter of mud gets in the same county, I will never own a pure white or pure black (or red) again.
Don't spend premium money on premium paint for your first job, it will show your skills either way, save the money and use the first job to practice your skills and learn what to do.


What do I plan on doing now / in the future.

Well, I have enough base to reshoot a full panel I am sure, and enough clear to shoot the whole truck again.
I washed and waxed it after the cut&buff was all done. So it will ride till spring no matter what and come spring I think I will:
A) blend in basecoat on the spot I burned through on the drive rear box, then re-shoot clear on that entire panel.
B) if I have cleaned up the shop to that point already, I will probably completely redo the hood, starting with bodywork and bondo again.


Advice:
Well I way overspent on cleaning materials... I bought a quart of acetone, then another, then another, I could have bought a full gallon at the start and spent less than 2 quarts. I bought one 3 pack of cans of sprayway glass cleaner, used 60% of one can... I can now clean all the glass in the house 20 times over. I said I was considering doing a painting thread and this is why, I could not find any sources for "how much xyz do I need" on a lot of the stuff other than paint / bed liner (mfg of those have info)... so I guessed on a lot of stuff, some I way under guessed (acetone), some I way over guessed (glass cleaner).

Read the TDS (Technical Data Sheet), read it a second time, read the back of the bottle/can, read it a second time.
I screwed up my cut&buff because I only read the can, and skimmed the TDS once... The can said "wait 8 hours before buffing, customer deliverable in 24" and that was it. The TDS said "best buffing window closes in 4 days". Well I didn't have any ultra fine sandpaper on hand (the finest was the 600 grit in the big box of assorted I got), and temperatures were miserable for 2 weeks after I finished painting... by the time the fine sandpaper got there I was past the best window (the paint had hardened too much) and I spent the entire month of december cutting and buffing.

Edit:
I'm also going to add how much did I "save".
Well the only body man for 60 miles in any direction told me he wanted $1,500 to do the body and shoot it in the same color (no jamb work), as soon as I said I don't like tan and any color other than tan, even white it was $3,500 no matter what color I chose (shoot all the jambs).. And that body guy is the dead cheapest in probably 500 mile radius, if I had taken it to a name shop (like "Precision Auto Body") instead of "Joe Smith on the corner of 4th and cherry" I am confident the cheapest would have started out $2,500+... there was a crap lot of hail damage, even the hard almost unbendable spots had hail damage like the brow of the fenders and B pillars.

 

[RobbieD]

That's all good advice.

A lot of times "just doing it" on your own can be a hard way to learn, but it can also be the best way to learn how to do something.

Sadly, a lot of the knowledge needed for the care and feeding of old vehicles is becoming less common. A lot of the older painting products are no more. Like in finding a good OBD1 mechanic or finding a competent A4LD rebuilder, or finding somebody that can repair an old OEM radio.

Instead, we now live in a "disposable" world. When your cheap shit breaks, just go buy more cheap shit. Why fix something?

I think that your truck turned out fine, and anybody doing such a complex job as a repaint by their selves can be damn proud of it.

Thank you for sharing your experiences on it.

 

[sgtsandman]

From the pictures, it doesn't look bad.

Also, someone defaced your front license plate. The numbers are missing. The police might not like that.

 

[Brain75]

that of course was photoshop.... I trust you guys, I don't trust any ole idiot who can get on here and gather personal info.
Same reason Jim slapped my hands over the Noah Zimmerman package deal... it's not us, it's the rest of the idiots/a-holes on the 'net.