My New House & Workshop

[Rick W]

I apretty confident that Rick's truss, with "a few gaps between members" WOULD FAIL any inspection

You’re probably right. You never let me get to the point of saying caulk the gaps or fill them with wet newspaper so they look tight.

I’M JOKING!!!

All is good...

 

[fastpakr]

Of course I'm challenging you. You gave bad advice. You may think I'm reading something that isn't there, but here's a reality check for you: You have repeatedly said that a half inch gap between structural members of a truss will not lead to that truss being unsafe. You have yet to acknowledge that that half inch gap would result in the truss failing inspection.

However, since you want me to ask questions, here's one: are you a member of The Structural Engineers Association of Georgia (SEAOG)?

If you have a useful way to participate in the thread, great.

If your purpose here is to troll someone into a fight, find a more constructive place to participate.

 

[Jim Oaks]

I get it. No gaps in the trusses.

 

[don4331]

At no point did Rick suggest building it with a half inch gap, or taking a sample himself. In both cases, you've read meanings into his posts that simply aren't there.

Post #391: You can have half inch gaps between the two by fours and it doesn’t matter. The plywood plates screwed in with glue are what carry the strength.

The plates aren't supposed to carry any weight. The design of the truss, has roof members in contact against each other; the plates are only supposed to ensure the members stay in correct locations. If the individual members aren't in contact, you are now counting on the the plywood plate to carry the load. Note: wood isn't an isotropic material (doesn't carry load equally in all direction), so, it you put the load from roof via dimensional lumber (ie. 2x4) in long direction thorough plywood due to a gap between members, the plywood will fail and your roof will fail with it.

@1990RangerinSK is trying to protect @Jim Oaks, the same way we protect people from exceeding payload/towing limits, etc. An engineer should know better than to give the advice posted on an internet forum.

 

[rumblecloud]

I get it. No gaps in the trusses.

Wait...what?
Oh. you mean "no gaps in the trusses'" right?

 

[97RangerXLT]

Full disclosure, I have an Associate in Science in Engineering...

I think what Rick was trying to tell us is that the truss does not need to be "perfect" and all of the boards tight up against each other. I would want it that way personally, but the glue and plywood will suport the truss in a case where one board is a tad short. if more than 2 boards are short, I would personally reject that truss, and my personal preference would be no more than 3/8" gap. but remember, a single truss does not hold up the roof. a few short boards is an acceptable range over the entire roof. and in addition to the truss, the roof is also held together with the sheeting which distributes the load over all of the trusses. that sheeting also protects the trusses themselves from weather and wear. the design of a truss roof system (key word system) is that no one component is holding the roof together.

so a few short boards are within the engineered tolerances of the truss and will not be an issue. Just like our trucks, there is a range of acceptable tolerances in the engine and mechanical parts, and yeah a piston that is slightly undersized may produce blowby or wear out a little faster than a piston that is at the exact spec, but for the purpose of the engine, it is accepted.

If you do have the ability to inpect the trusses beforehand to choose what you want, then yep, I would do that because if you are paying the money, you want the best you can get for it.

Asbestos... I would agree that stuff is best left to the experts, but I do believe that Rick was giving information on what is involved and not a command to go out and play in it.

For the masses, lets all take a step back and breathe, use some common sense and keep it civil.

AJ

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

The gap thing, what Rick is saying is sort of true. It is like fussing about the center hub of a wheel not being tight against the wheel. The tension from the lugnuts will hold it in place, a lug centric wheel doesn't care about the center boss as long as it isn't too big. The question of the day is if the side plates are strong enough on their own.

Not ideal for a construction standpoint obviously but the logic is there.

Interesting read here:

https://wfs.swst.org/index.php/wfs/article/viewFile/2132/2132

The test thing linked above they were testing the strength of the plates, it wasnt a "will these hold under normal conditions" test, it was a "these will fail under these conditions" test, so they may have applied more force to buckle the plates than a roof will ever see. And that varies by the size, pitch and general shape of the roof and by locale in the form of wind, snow load etc. They also say for what they were doing back in the 80's a 1/16" gap was code.

IMO I think Rick was on a roll and might have gotten a little exaggerated with his example, no reason to go nuts rubbing his nose in it.

 

[Rick W]

Just like our trucks, there is a range of acceptable tolerances

I’m confused. I appreciate you guys having my back, truly. But when I tried plywood and glue on my ranger it didn’t work worth a damn. What are you trying to say here?

IMO I think Rick was on a roll and might have gotten a little exaggerated with his example

No, no, that could never happen.

 

[Snoranger]

I’m confused. I appreciate you guys having my back, truly. But when I tried plywood and glue on my ranger it didn’t work worth a damn. What are you trying to say here?




No, no, that could never happen.

You must have used marine plywood... that doesn’t work in automotive applications.

 

[Rick W]

All this commotion got me to doubt myself (rare with my ego). I stated:

You can have half inch gaps between the two by fours and it doesn’t matter. The plywood plates screwed in with glue are what carry the strength. Yes, my 27 x 45’ shop is put together with Elmers glue!

Like our President, I believe in truth, not facts. I stand behind my statement. Here’s why.

The way a truss works is all the loads on the truss are either pulling on the members or pushing on the members along their length. There is no bending strength side to side. If you use half inch plywood plates, glued on both sides of the truss, they will completely transfer the compression or the tension (within the load limit of the truss overall), actually better than staple plates. What I stated is, even with 1/2” gaps, the plates will carry the strength. Emphasis on strength. Of course I would never direct or accept 1/2” or even much smaller gaps. This early comment was simply to emphasize the strength of the plywood plates. An interesting side thought is that the staple plates would have a high probability of failing in compression with any gaps at all, and in a twist, there is no comparison.

But I defer to @1990RangerinSK in this sense: I should have clarified the intent of my example much more clearly, and also stated clearly that it is not a recommended practice it’s just to make a point. If you assume I’m the smartest person in the room, obviously that is something I should have done (But even with my ego I never assume I’m the smartest guy in the room, and a lot of you guys are probably thinking “not even close”)

I think it’s also clear it’s nothing I wouldn’t do myself on my own projects with my and my family’s safety at stake. The total construction I’ve been involved with ranges in the mid 9 digits. Nothing has fallen down yet!

You know what a camel is? It’s a horse designed by committee. And, while I don’t believe in design by committee, we are just blue-skying here, not producing plans for construction.

I owe @1990RangerinSK a beer for keeping me honest, being the Ying to my yang for the best result for Jim. In that sense, I stand corrected and I apologize! Sorry for the commotion. I really can’t believe Jim is causing all this hoopla!

 

[Jim Oaks]

I need to find a way to post what I want and let companies contact me if they can do the work.

 

[Snoranger]

I need to find a way to post what I want and let companies contact me if they can do the work.

Start a website... charge a small fee. We’ll be rich.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Start a website... charge a small fee. We’ll be rich.

I'm excited already!

 

[Jim Oaks]

 

[franklin2]

I need to find a way to post what I want and let companies contact me if they can do the work.

Have you narrowed any choices down yet? You are definitely keeping the old building in some form or fashion?