My New House & Workshop

[Rick W]

What do you guys think? I think if I can throw another 10 or 12 drawings and ideas at @Jim Oaks , I can make his head explode before noon tomorrow!!!

@franklin2 video: it works, I’ve done it, I wouldn’t do it here, IT WILL NOT WORK HERE! Why? I zoomed in on the picture, see below. They’re lifting points are on the bottom of “W” trusses. It is not a rafter roof. A rafter roof is framed to the top of and secured by the wall, it does not just sit on top of it, so you would have to box in the ends of the rafters, and then lift it from just inside the walls. By the time you did all of that, you can tear the roof off and put the trusses up easier. The hydraulic equipment in the video is expensive even to rent, and the tall jeep jacks could work, far less stable than the hydraulic system with a steel frame.

Let’s look at an offset truss:

This sketch shows you all of the 2 x 4 cuts at the correct angles. Everything on top is done by the half, and everything below is done by the third. Having done it once or twice, I would line up the peak of the roof with the peak of the original roof, and let the side that goes over the bumped-out wall run long. If you do an 8 foot bump out, and you allow 1 foot overlap in front and back for the rain drip, you end up with a 30 foot trusss.

I’m an engineer, and I can tell you the math would make you absolutely crazy to try to draw out all of the angles and cuts. There is a very very simple trick I learned from a carpenter. If you look in the lower left corner, you really only need two dimensions +3 1/2 inches. “A” is the overall length of the truss, and “B“ is the overall height of the truss. Note the 3 1/2 inch rise on either end which is the height of the bottom 2 x 4. With those two dimensions, simply put five dots on your concrete floor, and snap chalk lines. Mark all the 1/2, 1/3 spots and then lay the 2x4s on top of the chalk lines and mark them to cut. It only takes a few minutes to lay out one, and then you have your templates for all the others, and simply put them together laying over the same chalk lines.

You can have half inch gaps between the two by fours and it doesn’t matter. The plywood plates screwed in with glue are what carry the strength. Yes, my 27 x 45’ shop is put together with Elmers glue!

Here are pictures of my plywood plates, you can see that they’re not straight and square and they don’t line up with the edges of the 2x4s. I intentionally put the plywood plates inside the outside edges of the truss so they wouldn’t get in the way of anything when we were assembling it. The screws are wallboard screws. They only have to hold the plywood down long enough for the glue to set.

 

[Rick W]

Afterthought, the roof can be waferboard, but the plywood plates have to be real plywood. I used half inch CD X plywood. And mine was inspected and done under permits in DeKalb county Georgia, the tightest building code in the state.

 

[Rick W]

I found this picture of jacking up a rafter roof online, maybe it’ll help

 

[Curious Hound]

I agree with Rick. A stick-built roof like that is not a great candidate for lifting. Trusses would be more stable when moving. He's coming up with some cool ideas for additions/remodeling.

 

[Jim Oaks]

So you're suggesting that I build new trusses and just cut out 30 feet of roof in the middle of the building and raise the wall height there. Extend the concrete out 8-feet x 30-feet, and then build 8-foot walls to close all of that back in. Right?

I would prefer a single 16 or 17 foot wide 2-car garage door over a 8 or 9 foot wide door. I had those on my last garage and hated squeezing through them. Plus I didn't like that my car trailer wouldn't fit through.

Is there a reason you chose to build out from the middle versus just increasing the wall height, building a new roof, and just having the garage door on the end? Is your plan more expensive or cheaper?

Also the wall behind the toilet was the original back wall of the building. Wouldn't that be structural?

I like the input. You've made me look at the building from a different perspective.

How would you make a building look like a "Ranger Station"?

 

[Rick W]

Ok, now sipping a wine, so start to consider further points tonight with a grain of salt....

On a rafter roof, you are relying on the bending strength of the 2x6s or 2x8s so there’s many and they have to be close. It’s brute force, but small spread out force, building blocks.

In a truss, all the loading is either pulling along the board or compressing on the length of the board. So they look flimsy, but they’re actually much much stronger. You could actually build this strong enough for your needs using 1x2s, but if a heavy branch cracked one spot, you could have dominos. 2x4 is code for this size, and it’s a fortress!

The danger with a truss is warping, twisting, or falling over like dominos. That’s secured by the plywood on top, and by running a double 1x3 “strap” by the bottoms of the “w” on both sides, and by the cap/drip board on the walls.

1. straps have to overlap two feet or more
2. When putting the plywood on top, shift each sheet four feet over, and the third row two feet over, so there are no joints on the same truss in 3 rows
3. Put a 2x4 spacer between each truss along the roofline. Theoretically, for 24” spacing, each spacer should be 21.5” (truss 2x4 with plus two 1/2” plywood plates. Having said that, it is much more important that the trusses sit vertical, so level each one, and cut the roofline spacer to maintain the verticality of each truss. It’s immediately academic when you put the plywood on, but there should be a spacer between the top of each truss to keep them from folding over under the plywood during an unusual load like snow or a wind storm
4. And it’s not necessary, but if you want to go overkill, put a few dabs of liquid nails on top of the trusses when you put down the plywood, and screw the plywood down instead of nailing it. Then paint it like a break s***house!
5. 
   Another glass of wine and an Ambien, and I can sole all y’all’s problems!!!

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

How would you make a building look like a "Ranger Station"?

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[Jim Oaks]

Wait, this plan doesn't work.

The front half of the building is 36 feet. The bathroom takes up 6 feet.

 

[Rick W]

So you're suggesting that I build new trusses and just cut out 30 feet of roof in the middle of the building and raise the wall height there. Extend the concrete out 8-feet x 30-feet, and then build 8-foot walls to close all of that back in. Right?

YES, but I would stud up the alleywall at least 4 feet, and build the new house-side walls 12’ high. That gives you 12’ free height inside for 30’

I would prefer a single 16 or 17 foot wide 2-car garage door over a 8 or 9 foot wide door. I had those on my last garage and hated squeezing through them. Plus I didn't like that my car trailer wouldn't fit through.

That was my original thought, but the bathroom is slap in the middle!!! I’d drew in two 10’ wide doors facing the house on each side of the bathroom. Closer to the street, 8’ high, closer to the back, 10’ high. If you need wider, easy modification.

Trust me I’m the cheapest SOB on earth. But building cheap that doesn’t do what you want gets you nowhere. And if you have just a couple of extra bucks, the layout I’m proposing lets you put three vehicles inside, maybe four, without having to move more than one to get one out. So you can have a torn apart project in the back, you can put your trailer in the middle, and you could put your daily driver in from the front. If the doors are too expensive for you right now, I would still build the structure like I’ve proposed in the middle, frame out both doors, but only install one and cover the other opening. Then do the front door facing the street when you’ve got the money, and then do the third door when you’ve got the money.

Is there a reason you chose to build out from the middle versus just increasing the wall height, building a new roof, and just having the garage door on the end? Is your plan more expensive or cheaper?

You said you wanted the 150 under cover and you said with the building only 18’ deep in the middle, even when you pull in a ranger or a car, it’s hard to get around it. This solves all that.

Also the wall behind the toilet was the original back wall of the building. Wouldn't that be structural?

You need to open up the ceiling and take some pictures for me to be sure one way or the other. If the rafters run side to side in the existing building all the way to that bathroom wall, then the roof is supported on the long walls, and the back wall was simply for security. However, if the roof on the back end of the original building tapered down like the front does now, there may be support on that back wall. I kind of doubt it, because they cut out the middle of the wall to access the addition. But I’d really need to see some pictures before you start to tear stuff out.

as regards just building up the center section and re-roofing it, you don’t get the depth advantage, and if you parked cars end to end, you would have to move them all to get the rear one out. I’m not bragging, but I’ve done this a zillion times and I’m much bigger buildings. This is a Cadillac for a Chevy price, and it solves all the things you’ve mentioned so far.

BTW, I can absolutely design you a less expensive option. But I think we could spend our time and effort to execute this in phases if you have to spread out your money, without compromising the result.

If I can be so bold, when I built my shop, I basically had unlimited resources and I built what I wanted. Having said that, if I did it over again, I would make it 2 feet wider, and I would make it 2 feet further off the property line so my carport could be 2 feet wider. First and foremost, you should list out everything you would like in this building, and then design it, and we haven’t even talked yet. I know how to pick your brain for those details. And if you’re going to live there the rest of your life, it should be or become exactly what you want!

One other thought on the plaster ceilings. I think you said this was a TV shop or such in the past. I’ll bet the only reason it has the wallboard/stippled ceilings is because it was a “occupied” space. If it’s a garage, and you have the light zoning as you’ve mentioned, I’m pretty sure you could pull all that ceiling down. That will probably give you an 8 foot tall free space, that will seem much taller because it would be exposed up to the bottom of the roof. That would mean you would lose the insulation, but unless you spend days in there on freezing days, the little bit of extra heat would probably be unnoticeable. Mine is 27 x 45, nothing is insulated, I have a 115,000 BTU furnace I got for free. It heats up in less than 30 minutes on a below freezing day, and maybe it’ll add 75 or $100 to my gas bill each month if I’m in there seven or eight days in the month.

And I’m a pretty creative guy, I could definitely give you ideas on how to make it THEE Ranger Station, best shop and watering hole in the land.

hey, I’m already designing the covered wall and roof for the 159, where you can set up tables and feed us and let the beer flow!

 

[Rick W]

Wait, this plan doesn't work.

The front half of the building is 36 feet. The bathroom takes up 6 feet.

I pulled my dimensions from your graph paper dimensions. It works. The bathroom is between the two side garage doors.

 

[Jim Oaks]

That leaves 9 feet between the wall and bathroom?

 

[Rick W]

Keep up with me on the wine/beer and it will all make sense before morning....

 

[Rick W]

That leaves 9 feet between the wall and bathroom?

which wall? New bumped out wall? That’s now the entrance foyer. Beer fridge, microwave, book shelves, portrait of Rick....

actually just maximizes the cross space between vehicles, no other option with bathroom unless you want to make it a sauna...

 

[Rick W]

This shows bumped out wall and slightly narrower bathroom. Only way to keep bathroom as is.

 

[Jim Oaks]

Maybe build up one end of the building instead of the middle?