man-pwr...pwr-man

[mikepotts]

anyone ever change from manual to power master cyl... or the other way?

i want to change from power to manual.

 

[Mark_88]

Sorry, but I didn't even know there was a power brake option on these trucks...and I've never actually seen one...unless you mean going from no booster to adding a booster...

I've seen trucks with the Master just sticking out of the firewall with no booster on them...but putting a booster on them shouldn't be a big mod...you may have to change the support bracket or just drill holes for a booster...easier to just swap in the bracket, actually and they are not that difficult to do...when I stripped mine down the bracket was held in by only a few bolts...but it means pulling the steering column out...removing the dash of course, and just swap in the new bracket...

 

[Sasquatch_Ryda]

Why would you want to go to manual brakes?

 

[Mark_88]

Ooops...didn't see the last sentence...good question though...other than the booster getting in the way of the throttle cable (like mine) it's not a good idea...there are thinner boosters available...

 

[metalmacguyver]

Sorry, but I didn't even know there was a power brake option on these trucks...and I've never actually seen one...unless you mean going from no booster to adding a booster...

I've seen trucks with the Master just sticking out of the firewall with no booster on them...but putting a booster on them shouldn't be a big mod...you may have to change the support bracket or just drill holes for a booster...easier to just swap in the bracket, actually and they are not that difficult to do...when I stripped mine down the bracket was held in by only a few bolts...but it means pulling the steering column out...removing the dash of course, and just swap in the new bracket...

Are you talking about the same bolts that would hold a booster in?

If so, there is no reason to tear the whole dash apart to get to the bolts (actually nuts that go onto studs from the booster). I was able to get them with one universal joint, a deepwell socket and an extension on my 3/8 ratchet when doing my hydroboost swap.

 

[Mark_88]

Are you talking about the same bolts that would hold a booster in?

If so, there is no reason to tear the whole dash apart to get to the bolts (actually nuts that go onto studs from the booster). I was able to get them with one universal joint, a deepwell socket and an extension on my 3/8 ratchet when doing my hydroboost swap.

Correct...I just used a deep socket and could access all four bolts that way...but I think I had to undo the clutch and the brake pedals to get my hands in there...

I wasn't sure at first (reading comprehension problems...heh) if he had a booster and wanted to remove it or if he wanted to add a booster...but now that I think about it...removing the pillar would not be necessary since they probably use the same bolt holes either way and they would be pre-drilled to save production time...

 

[mikepotts]

Why would you want to go to manual brakes?

AH HA! i knew someone would ask. my BII is a power brake truck... it has become somewhat of a trail only vehicle, with rockwells and pinion brakes. i am having a master cyl issue, and need to get a new one, so i am wanting to kill two birds with one stone... i want to have the same braking power with or without the motor running, and with the pinion brakes it should still stop on a dime with a manual master. thus the question... basically interested if a manual master will bolt in place of a power master, i think it will, just thought someone else might have come accross this before... either way.

 

[mikepotts]

FYI... a coupe things i found, the booster mounts using a 4 bolt semi square pattern, the manual master uses the upper 2 holes from the square... thus raising the centerline of the master plunger which requires the manual brake pedal to have a slightly higher (about 1") rod attachment point on the pedal arm. so, if changing either way from power to man., or man. to power a pedal swap is necessary.

 

[Mark_88]

So would you say the non-booster system uses the same holes but a different pedal...or would you have to drill other holes to make it work?

Maybe a tech forum item...not sure if it would be a popular conversion though...I had considered that at one point because I was having real problems with the brakes and thought it was the booster...I remember seeing a booster-less system and can't remember why but I but I decided to try one more booster...which turned out to be fine...

The problem was actually my flex lines had disintegrated causing the fronts to lock up...

 

[Black P-38]

Here's my recent experience... When I deleted the brake booster in favor of manual brakes I had to remove a master cylinder firewall plate from another Ranger so I could re-mount the master on the firewall without the booster. The brake pedal lever for power brakes is different in the location of the stud from the fulcrum since less leverage is required.

The problem with converting to a manual setup is that the master mounts higher and requires the stud for the brake rod to be closer to the fulcrum for increased leverage as well as proper angle approaching the master cylinder piston.

Removing the brake pedal lever is no picnic on manual trans models since you have to extract the clutch pedal lever. If you've ever done this you know what I mean.

The clutch pedal lever has a long shaft welded to it that slides through the support and brake lever pivot and is kept in place by a circlip on the right side of the support.

In order to gain enough room to the left of the support to clear the length of the long shaft I had to move the main harness out of the way which meant unbolting the round multipin firewall connector from under the hood and separating the halves.

The inner half is held in the firewall by 3 pressure clips and once released allowed enough slack to pull the harness out of my way. When I thought I was almost there I realized the E-brake foot pedal mechanism was keeping the shaft from coming out the last 3/4" or so... aaaaarrrrgggghhhh!!!!

I wasn't about to give up at that point so I unbolted the
E-brake assembly, removed the cable and pulled the assembly out of my way. Success at last!!! But what a freakin' pain... did I mention there's no way to get into a comfortable positon under there???

I decided instead of replacing the brake pedal lever with a manual unit, (which would mean pulling the one out of my other Ranger... no thank you!!!), I would modify my existing unit and re-install it.

I got the measurements from my other Ranger, drilled a hole in the correct location on the lever and tapped it for a 1/2-13 shouldered bolt. I ran the bolt in from the same side as the factory stud 'til the shank bottomed in the threads and torqued the crap out of it, then I threaded a nylock nut on from the other side an torqued it down.

I cut the bolt head off at the appropriate length, ground it flat and chamfered the edge. Next I cut off the excess threads from the nut side and ground it smooth.

I had to make a brass bushing to step the new stud diameter up to 9/16, prefit the brake rod with black bushing, white nylon washers and brakelight switch to get the location of the hole to drill for the springpin retainer. I removed the pieces, drilled the hole and reassembled everything, it worked great.

I got the brake and clutch pedals back together along with the firewall connector, cut the part of the E-brake bracket that doubles as the drivers side dashboard mount, re-installed that piece and the lower dash access panel and called it a day.

So I finally have brakes again except for the E-brake which I am replacing with a Rover floor mounted hand brake. So much for those simple little mods that "wont take long"...

The above post was copied from my thread in the V-8 Conversion forum:

http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21297

I haven't driven the truck yet as I am in the process of a V-8 swap but the brakes have a hard pedal and feel just like the factory manual brakes in my other 2 Rangers.

Hope this helps!

Mike

 

[Mark_88]

Maybe it's just me or the way I did it, but I didn't have any problems removing the brake/clutch pedal assembly...but, then again, I removed the seats and dash and even swapped out the steering column...but it sounds like you did quite a bit more than what I did...I kept the column for the brake support in place but came very close to removing that also...

 

[Tony Raine]

i've been wondering this same thing. while my b2 is not trail-only, it will never go above 55 mph for the rest of its life. and i now have 4-wheel discs. so non-power 4 wheel discs should stop just fine. i mean, i've driven a mustang with 4 wheel manual drums, and it did everything i needed it to do.

 

[mikepotts]

Here's my recent experience... When I deleted the brake booster in favor of manual brakes I had to remove a master cylinder firewall plate from another Ranger so I could re-mount the master on the firewall without the booster. The brake pedal lever for power brakes is different in the location of the stud from the fulcrum since less leverage is required.

The problem with converting to a manual setup is that the master mounts higher and requires the stud for the brake rod to be closer to the fulcrum for increased leverage as well as proper angle approaching the master cylinder piston.

Removing the brake pedal lever is no picnic on manual trans models since you have to extract the clutch pedal lever. If you've ever done this you know what I mean.

The clutch pedal lever has a long shaft welded to it that slides through the support and brake lever pivot and is kept in place by a circlip on the right side of the support.

In order to gain enough room to the left of the support to clear the length of the long shaft I had to move the main harness out of the way which meant unbolting the round multipin firewall connector from under the hood and separating the halves.

The inner half is held in the firewall by 3 pressure clips and once released allowed enough slack to pull the harness out of my way. When I thought I was almost there I realized the E-brake foot pedal mechanism was keeping the shaft from coming out the last 3/4" or so... aaaaarrrrgggghhhh!!!!

I wasn't about to give up at that point so I unbolted the
E-brake assembly, removed the cable and pulled the assembly out of my way. Success at last!!! But what a freakin' pain... did I mention there's no way to get into a comfortable positon under there???

I decided instead of replacing the brake pedal lever with a manual unit, (which would mean pulling the one out of my other Ranger... no thank you!!!), I would modify my existing unit and re-install it.

I got the measurements from my other Ranger, drilled a hole in the correct location on the lever and tapped it for a 1/2-13 shouldered bolt. I ran the bolt in from the same side as the factory stud 'til the shank bottomed in the threads and torqued the crap out of it, then I threaded a nylock nut on from the other side an torqued it down.

I cut the bolt head off at the appropriate length, ground it flat and chamfered the edge. Next I cut off the excess threads from the nut side and ground it smooth.

I had to make a brass bushing to step the new stud diameter up to 9/16, prefit the brake rod with black bushing, white nylon washers and brakelight switch to get the location of the hole to drill for the springpin retainer. I removed the pieces, drilled the hole and reassembled everything, it worked great.

I got the brake and clutch pedals back together along with the firewall connector, cut the part of the E-brake bracket that doubles as the drivers side dashboard mount, re-installed that piece and the lower dash access panel and called it a day.

So I finally have brakes again except for the E-brake which I am replacing with a Rover floor mounted hand brake. So much for those simple little mods that "wont take long"...

The above post was copied from my thread in the V-8 Conversion forum:

http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21297

I haven't driven the truck yet as I am in the process of a V-8 swap but the brakes have a hard pedal and feel just like the factory manual brakes in my other 2 Rangers.

Hope this helps!

Mike

dude! i hadent seen your reply here, till came back here to copy and paste your reply in the v-8 forum! thanks for your reply! again, i think your reply here should be stickied, so the next time someone needs a little insight before starting this mod. they wont have to search for hours.

 

[Black P-38]

Well, I hope this info helps someone... I've learned so much from the posts of others on this site and the Tech Section in the last year or so, happy to contribute what I can. LOVE this site and forums!!!

I have picked up new 10" backing plates for the rear brake upgrade on my '91, wheel cylinders, hardware kit, plus drums and shoes are on their way so I'll be doing the upgrade in a while. Of course I'll have to pull the axles to replace the 9" backing plates with the new 10" units. That means removing the diff cover etc so I bought a good used Trac Loc and 3.73 gear set to replace my open unit and 3.08 set. Now I'm thinking I'll just remove the whole rear axle assembly so I can do it as a "bench rebuild" including a thorough cleaning inside and out plus some paint and maybea new T/A Performance aluminum girdle/cover... I want to make sure everything is up to par for the V-8 powerplant and 5 speed.

Guess I'll be posting more pics and describing my experiences.

I also have a pair of '96 Ranger spindles, calipers on their way, looking at some new drilled slotted rotors and pads etc so I'll be documenting the front brake upgrade to dual piston calipers as well. Man, with all that plus finishing the V-8 swap I'm gonna be a busy guy... Plus I'm parting out my '94 Lightning and need to work on my house...
Sheesh, I'm tired from just thinking about it... Well. at least working on the Ranger will be "fun".

Stay tuned,
Mike