M5OD shifter lever ???

[pcollins]

i was given the idea today that instead of taking everything apart to do my clutch. spray it with brake clean first through the inspection hole. i guess that might fix my incomplete release issue when its hot. something about grease that may have been left behind. just wanna know if this is a good idea or not?

second. last time i posted about my clutch i think i said to much. so i'm gonna try this instead. give you guys the symptoms and toss me some ideas...i'm not afraid of taking the tranny out so don't be afraid to say it thanks.

symptom: clutch doesn't fully disengage when engine/tranny are hot. it takes it about 10 seconds or more to disengage if it does at all. like something is sticking.

 

[pcollins]

just for the record...shift levers are not the same. not even close. which brings my original post down to the other questions...i'll edit it.

 

[dbp]

I'm just throwing this out there, my knowledge on clutches is rather limited (weird being that I've driven one for 10 of the past 12 years)...but could there be air in the lines? Or a bad clutch master cylinder (internal leak or something)??

 

[pcollins]

I'm just throwing this out there, my knowledge on clutches is rather limited (weird being that I've driven one for 10 of the past 12 years)...but could there be air in the lines? Or a bad clutch master cylinder (internal leak or something)??

thats what i was thinking in the beginning. but i'm just not sure. we've bleed the living shit out of it. the slave cylinder is brand new.

oh and now that i remember...is there a chance that the master got ruined when we air bled the clutch last year? we replaced the slave after that mistake but not the master. i just don't want to believe its air in the lines because it only acts up when its hot.

 

[pcollins]

well. i went out and picked up a clutch kit for my ranger...just so i have it. i'm gonna bleed my master cylinder before i actually put this kit in to make sure thats not the problem. what you guys think? $160 for this a good deal? Its got the alignment tool, pilot bearing, pressure plate, clutch disc, and throwout bearing.

 

[dbp]

Like I said, I'm not too familiar, I'd try to talk to someone with a bit more knowledge...that for $160 sounds like a great deal to me though...

But anyway, did you ever do anything to introduce air into the clutch system? Because even when you replace the clutch, I'm pretty sure you don't have to bleed the system. I replaced a clutch once, on my old 02 Ranger because there was a TSB on it.

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Also, I thought you said that you had already replaced the clutch and were having this problem since putting in the new clutch...maybe I misunderstood you.

But when your clutch goes bad, it will slip...RPM's will go up when you are first putting it into gear, especially on a hill. Then like if you shift into 2nd when going up a hill especially, it will slip more and more to the point where it just won't give you any go at all...and it'll stink too.

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It sounds to me, if I'm reading this all correctly that you're not getting slippage. Which seems to indicate a problem with something in the hydraulics. This is where I get lost...but some trannies I think use a slave cylinder, others a throw out bearing...does the m50d-r1 use both? If so, and you go in there to replace all that, I'd put in a slave cylinder as well.

 

[pcollins]

Like I said, I'm not too familiar, I'd try to talk to someone with a bit more knowledge...that for $160 sounds like a great deal to me though...

But anyway, did you ever do anything to introduce air into the clutch system? Because even when you replace the clutch, I'm pretty sure you don't have to bleed the system. I replaced a clutch once, on my old 02 Ranger because there was a TSB on it.

--

Also, I thought you said that you had already replaced the clutch and were having this problem since putting in the new clutch...maybe I misunderstood you.

But when your clutch goes bad, it will slip...RPM's will go up when you are first putting it into gear, especially on a hill. Then like if you shift into 2nd when going up a hill especially, it will slip more and more to the point where it just won't give you any go at all...and it'll stink too.

--

It sounds to me, if I'm reading this all correctly that you're not getting slippage. Which seems to indicate a problem with something in the hydraulics. This is where I get lost...but some trannies I think use a slave cylinder, others a throw out bearing...does the m50d-r1 use both? If so, and you go in there to replace all that, I'd put in a slave cylinder as well.

No, the first time it was apart we never changed the pressure plate/friction disc. its not slipping, but i figure if i take it apart, i may as well change it. the clutch only has 135k on it. which is really nothing. i've seen most of them go over 200k around here.

The original problem with the truck was the pedal went to floor and didn't come up. the throwout bearing and spring and stuff on it was bad. so we took the tranny out and changed that. I'm not sure why, but we had to bleed the system after. well, silly us, didn't realize that black diaphragm comes out of the reservoir...so we filled THAT with fluid instead of the resivoir. needless to say we bled it full of air. the whole system. after realizing our mistake we filled it properly and bled and bled it. it wouldn't bleed. we took it all out again, replaced the slave cylinder, got it together and finally bled it to work right.

this problem with incomplete disengagement has been going on for a while now, what i was wondering is if i should consider a master cylinder bench bleed first, or just a new one? i'm not sure if bleeding it full of air could have ruined it? yes, the M5OD is actually a bit different. instead of a fork, the slave cylinder pushes directly on the throwout bearing. I don't really want to drop the $70 into another new slave, as this one is only a year old. Hmmm. could the pressure plate or pilot bearing cause this problem?

 

[trusted_expert]

you should also note that that standard bleeding procedures dont get all the air out of the system on the ford slave cyl circuit. the only way to get the air pocket out is to bench bleed it or vacuum bleed it. i saw a really good tech video somewhere on it. ill see if i can find it.
edit: ive also heard of replacement slaves failing long before expected. id vacuum bleed it and if that doesnt fix it id throw that clutch kit in with a new slave.

 

[pcollins]

you should also note that that standard bleeding procedures dont get all the air out of the system on the ford slave cyl circuit. the only way to get the air pocket out is to bench bleed it or vacuum bleed it. i saw a really good tech video somewhere on it. ill see if i can find it.
edit: ive also heard of replacement slaves failing long before expected. id vacuum bleed it and if that doesnt fix it id throw that clutch kit in with a new slave.

so should i bench bleed the master, put it back in and vacuum bleed the whole circuit before i tear it apart?

 

[fordbrian333]

try to unblot the master and tilt it up so the tube from the resivior is at the highest point, this way a buble cant get caught in the master (undo the disconnect that goes into the slave cylinder first though so you only bleeding the master cylinder and not the whole clutch, then connect it and bleed the slave cylinder, you should run about a resivior and a half through the slave cylinder and it should be fine)

 

[pcollins]

try to unblot the master and tilt it up so the tube from the resivior is at the highest point, this way a buble cant get caught in the master (undo the disconnect that goes into the slave cylinder first though so you only bleeding the master cylinder and not the whole clutch, then connect it and bleed the slave cylinder, you should run about a resivior and a half through the slave cylinder and it should be fine)

thats the problem :/ my master doesn't unbolt. its a 45 degree turn lock. the inner fender is in the way of actually being able to tilt it. thats why i figure i'll just take the whole master out and bench bleed it seperately. i'd have to spend time taking the splash guard for the inner fender off.

 

[AllanD]

The greatest issue with bleeding in the chassis is people want to get it "perfect" and that isn't possible...

What IS possible is get it to the point of SOME action then just cycle the pedal with everything closed, and let the system (more or less ) bleed itself, which it WILL do if you aren't frantically opening the bleeder screw...

AD

 

[pcollins]

The greatest issue with bleeding in the chassis is people want to get it "perfect" and that isn't possible...

What IS possible is get it to the point of SOME action then just cycle the pedal with everything closed, and let the system (more or less ) bleed itself, which it WILL do if you aren't frantically opening the bleeder screw...

AD

i've taken the cover off the reservoir before and just pumped and pumped it before (slowly). didn't really do anything.

 

[pcollins]

so i just spend from 830am to 120pm fighting to get the master cylinder out, bench bleed, and back in. its done. and no difference at all. still have the same problem :/ so i guess apart it comes, gonna change it all. slave, pressure plate, friction disc, pilot bearing, throwout bearing. and if that doesn't fix it, i'll buy a new master and let the Ford garage install it.

EDIT: the line that goes from the master to the slave, will it melt or be damaged if its about 3" from the exhaust? i'm not sure how heat resistant these are. and there was NO way i was routing it the way it originally was. so i kinda had to pick a new way.

 

[pcollins]

so i just remembered how expensive it is owning a ford...$83 for a slave cylinder w/ throwout bearing...and thats with a Tax exempt farm discount!!! i'm tearing the tranny apart this week or next...maybe i'll document it. praying that this fixes my prob.