K&N vs OEM Paper Airfilters

[snake]

Good evidence, Bob- that report says it all. Wonder what MAKG says about all this? We could ask if he wasn't abducted by al gore and his climate nazis...

 

[Sevensecondsuv]

If the motor was in such good shape, why was it torn down?

Cracked heads due to the previous owner neglecting the cooling system.

Seems like K&N was able to.....

Like I said, if a paper filter FIT, I would run one because they're cheaper. But since no one makes a paper filter that fits, I have to run the K&N, because they make one that FITS!!!! No falling for BS here. It's a simple matter of a K&N works where there is no paper filter application that will work.

Maybe when I get home from work tonight I'll take some pictures of my spotless turbo blades on the ranger and squeeky clean MAF on the exploder...

 

[feellnfroggy]

Correct me if Im wrong but doesnt the duramax turbo motor flow 3x the airflow of the vehicles we are referring too? So how does that writeup help?

This report presents the results of an ISO 5011 test of several air filters designed for the GM Duramax Diesel. The test was independently performed under controlled conditions using a $285,000 machine at Testand Corp of Rhode Island (manufacturer of the machine). Arlen Spicer, a GM Duramax Diesel owner/enthusiast organized the test. Ken an employee of Testand offered to perform the tests at no charge. (These tests typically cost approx $1700.00 per filter). Ken, also a Diesel enthusiast and owner of a Ford Power Stroke Diesel, shared Arlen’s interest in performing an accurate unbiased test of different types and brands of diesel engine air filters. The filters used in the test were purchased retail and donated by Arlen and other individual Duramax Diesel owners. The detailed reports from the test have been compiled and are presented in the following pages. The final pages of this report present the interesting story how and why Arlen organized the test.

Diesel engines run hgiher compression, hotter temps, tighter clearances, all issues that require cleaner air. For a diesel maybe that test was accurate.

've seen two kinds of people on here so far. No not paper verses oil. One type s the ones who spout off the exact same word for word BS as their original arguement, offering no further facts. And the the other type is some who backs it up with real world experience and not some controled perfect environment lab test.

Someone show me what kind of filters are run on the baja trucks? What are used in nascar? What kind of filters are used at your local mud pit, dirt track, cruise night, etc.

So far everyone has established the point that THERE ARE ADVANTAGES AND DISADVANTAGES TO BOTH.

That machine I read about was a $285,000 machine. They claim it cost 1700 per filter tested. (I assume operating costs) How much R&D goes into the Fram air filters, K&N, Motorcraft? Someone please explain to me if these parts are as worthless as some individuals claim, why do they continue to exist? I still have not read an answer to this. And the "our whole nation is misguided about air filters" explanation doesnt work. I have a hard time believing that many people are idiots.

::edit:: 04 EDGE, don't let BOB's opinion get you riled up personally, keep it objective. It's just a debate over 3 different opinions. If we all get personal and angry (or give the appearance of angry) Then the mods will close our heated, directionless, pointless thread.
(The kind that we all apparently enjoy, LOL)

 

[04 EDGE]

oh he dosent bother me, its just his redundancy gets annoying, these sites are after all for "enthusiasts" he clearly is not.

years ago i made a point to him that he never commented on.

ford OEM factory installed air filters are oiled. i even offered to send him my factory installed filter to he could see for himself. he had no comment, just posting links to other sites, never any "real world" data.

like i said in my other post, this "anti mod" crap does not belong on sites like this.

 

[Sevensecondsuv]

Bob, for your next filter test (since you seem to have an endless amount of money and time to waste on proving irrelavent, mute points that no one cares about), I want you to put each filter on a test stand, and blast each one with a sand blaster for 5 minutes. I'm interested to know which one lets more sand through in the 5 minutes.

My guess is that the paper filter turns into confetti within the first 30 seconds while the metal mesh on the K&N survives intact, resulting in less sand passing through the K&N

Because this test would be about as relavent to actual operation on a real engine as any thing you've posted yet.

 

[04 EDGE]

 

[feellnfroggy]

oh he dosent bother me, its just his redundancy gets annoying, these sites are after all for "enthusiasts" he clearly is not.

years ago i made a point to him that he never commented on.

ford OEM factory installed air filters are oiled. i even offered to send him my factory installed filter to he could see for himself. he had no comment, just posting links to other sites, never any "real world" data.

like i said in my other post, this "anti mod" crap does not belong on sites like this.

Anti-mod, meaning anti modification, not anti moderator right?LOL

As for the sand blasting test. Second, even your humor I cant agree with, If I sandblasted a paper filter and a K&N, AND my truck. they would both last longer than my truck. so its really not a fair comparo LOL.

Also, Im not pointing fingers at Bob or anyone inparticular, but the mindset that these humans were issued with. Bob is from an older generation, by far. And the older gens have always had a contradiction for anything new or modern for the most part. They still think in terms of more is better, bigger is better. Im not faultiing them for it. It just contributes to alot of their closed mindedness. 90% percent of them will run carbed and claim greater horsepower gains per dollar. which is not really all that accurate either. Once again, there are advantage and disadvantages to both.

 

[Sevensecondsuv]

so its really not a fair comparo LOL.

My point exactly! (just like the rest of Bob's tests)

I've got nothing personal against Bob either. It justs bugs me when people come around here making highly divisive, pointless posts just because they like to argue and get people pissed off at each other. That's not what these forums are for.....

 

[04 EDGE]

good point. this is not what these forums are for. many valuable members have been banned from many sites for defending the rights of the american consumer. its my money, i'll spend it how i want. i dont need a "dictator" type opinion telling me that i should conform to there biased beliefs.

 

[gw33gp]

Bob is from an older generation, by far. And the older gens have always had a contradiction for anything new or modern for the most part. They still think in terms of more is better, bigger is better. Im not faultiing them for it. It just contributes to alot of their closed mindedness. 90% percent of them will run carbed and claim greater horsepower gains per dollar. which is not really all that accurate either. Once again, there are advantage and disadvantages to both.

Let's not turn this into an old vs young post. It is basically about K&N vs paper filters. I am one older people that attend this forum and I don't fall into your generalization.

I don't agree with Bob's opinion and have used K&N filters for almost 40 years. During that time I have racked up around 500,000 miles with K&N filters and have not experienced one problem related to the filters.

 

[Bob Ayers]

good point. this is not what these forums are for. many valuable members have been banned from many sites for defending the rights of the american consumer. its my money, i'll spend it how i want. i dont need a "dictator" type opinion telling me that i should conform to there biased beliefs.

Show me one of my posts where I have told ANYBODY they couldn't buy something?


You have been banned for saying stupid things!! Glad you are so modest to say you are a "valuable member"

 

[Bob Ayers]

It's interesting....I got this PM from a moderator on TRS:



Let me help pay for that study.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Good job, damn good job.

Shame you wasted about 60 bucks to back that up. I'd love to split that cost with you and still give you full credit. Nobody needs to know, honestly. Let me know your paypal address and I'll send you some funds.

 

[MikeInIdaho]

"Gentlemen and Ladies, Marketing and the lure of profit is VERY POWERFUL!"

-My favorite quote from that Duramax article. When I got my truck from my parents, one of the first things I did was change the oil and air filter. They were in Twentynine Palms when they were having all those hellacious sandstorms and wildfires last year, and I'm damn glad they weren't running a k&n, 'cause there was about an inch of ultra-fine dust in the bottom of the airbox when I got it.

 

[Jon581]

why are you trying so hard to make people belive what you belive?most new guy's that come on here and ask if swapping out there oem for a K&N will help performance they don't want long drawn out data sheets and tests just a few proven simple answers about why it will or will not help performance and also next time you want to show why a K&N does not work and is bad for your car try using real world tests.

 

[Tee Rev]

There's another serious flaw with this comparison.

The filter that Bob is using to represent an OEM Paper Airfilter is not in reality made solely from paper/cellulose, it's actually manufactured using a synthetic polymer fiber. Not only that, it's an oiled filter!!


But don't take my word for it, check it out for yourself!