I'm running too cool

[MAKG]

And you're confusing out of SPEC with out of RANGE.

An operating point of 160 deg or lower is out of spec. No, they weren't designed for serious arctic temperatures. The poor schmucks at the NSF South Pole Station have even worse issues (like not being able to start the Diesel snow cats).

But the temperature sensors (coolant and air) max out at -40, so they are out of range as well. Even in the arctic, these conditions do not last more than a few months. It's different from a permanent change. It ISN'T good for the vehicle, but it "repairs" itself in the spring.

And arctic vehicles DO NOT last like temperate-zone vehicles. It's a very harsh environment.

 

[low_five]

An operating point of 160 deg or lower is out of spec.

Thank you for promptly providing documentary evidence to back up your claim that an ECT value of 160 is out of spec. In the realm of fact, where I live, ECT values are present for temps below your 170 degree engine-destruction-threshold. It is called Cold Drive Away strategy. and guess what? its in spec!

lol.

No, they weren't designed for serious arctic temperatures.

they were designed to work in a wide range of temperatures, from extreme arctic temperatures to extreme desert conditions. You would be well advised to modify the cooling system if you are in either extreme range.

But the temperature sensors (coolant and air) max out at -40, so they are out of range as well.

youre confusing out of RANGE with out of SPEC. Air is routed around the exhaust manifolds, which warms the air into the proper range.

And arctic vehicles DO NOT last like temperate-zone vehicles. It's a very harsh environment.

Engines up here outlast the chassis they are bolted in to. I guarantee you there are more cars with non-original engines in them in Austin, TX Where I lived for 12 years, than in cold climates. up here people pull their good engines and scrap the car. The engine sits on an engine stand or a pallet on the side of the house forever because there are no good recipient cars to put it in. I guess you are right that VEHICLES last forever in temperate-zones. Engines are another story.

 

[rickcdewitt]

Engines up here outlast the chassis they are bolted in to. I guarantee you there are more cars with non-original engines in them in Austin, TX Where I lived for 12 years, than in cold climates. .

sure because the cars rot apart up there.i have several cars that are 40+ years old in my yard that don't have rust holes.that doesn't happen in the rust belt.thats why safety inspections are so important up north-so a damn wheel doesn't rot off.

The engine sits on an engine stand or a pallet on the side of the house forever because there are no good recipient cars to put it in. I guess you are right that VEHICLES don't last forever in the rust belt. Engines are the same story.

fixed it for you

 

[fatt_owl2.9]

lol well thanks guys, I appreciate the hell outta all the advice and stories posted in here, I never expected this thread to do this well.

I'm finally getting somewhere, I found the adjustment knob, right in plain sight, on top of the fan control module. The knob is missing altogether, and forever I looked at that little metal stub sticking up out of it and never thought it really had a purpose. So for shits and giggles I grabbed a needlenose and tried to turn this little stub, and lo and behold, it turns. God I feel like a dumbass

I turned it all the way right until it stopped, and now the fan does not come on at all, and my temp gauge pegs right at 160 after just a few normal minutes of warming up and boogying down the freeway and stays there. So since it's staying firm at 160, I guess now it's just a question of putting a hotter thermostat in, which I may be possibly doing this evening.

So if I stick a 195 deg. thermostat in there, what I need to know now is what is the warmest acceptable temperature she can run and still be happy? With as easy as heads crack on these things I don't wanna take the chance of getting even too close to the too-hot side. Thanks again guys.

 

[low_five]

nobody knows.

if they do crack, I trust you will come back here and rub it in everyones face, right?

lol. you will probably be ok though as long as your radiator is sufficient. do you run AC or not?

 

[fatt_owl2.9]

nobody knows.

if they do crack, I trust you will come back here and rub it in everyones face, right?

lol. you will probably be ok though as long as your radiator is sufficient. do you run AC or not?

I don't run the A/C. It's all there and it works it just needs a recharge, and I never got around to getting that done, plus we're getting into cool/chilly weather so I won't be running it. The radiator is pretty small and weathered-looking, it's probably the original one. It doesn't leak though, so I guess I'm ok.

 

[Psychopete]

nobody knows.

210 is pretty much the upper extremity of a 195 thermo. And no, you cannot predict when a 2.9L head will crack (well, maybe in some instances).

if they do crack, I trust you will come back here and rub it in everyones face, right?

Why? He did the complete opposite of what anyone suggested. They'll crack without even overheating, and how is this problem any of our fault? Although, I might have tried using the existing system first, but to recommend anything otherwise isn't technically correct.

Pete

 

[rickcdewitt]

So if I stick a 195 deg. thermostat in there, what I need to know now is what is the warmest acceptable temperature she can run and still be happy? With as easy as heads crack on these things I don't wanna take the chance of getting even too close to the too-hot side. Thanks again guys.

get it going down the road again with the new thermostat and find out what temp it stabilizes at(with the fan turned off) and note what temp it is.

then let it idle and quickly turn the knob down(cooler) until it just comes on(while still at normal running temp) and turn it back up a tiny bit so it don't kick on too much.

then watch the temp gauge and make sure its set low enough to keep her at running temp but not come on a lot(you can tell when the fan is trying to keep it too cool).

these are a pain in the ass and you'll probably need to tweek it a little through the seasons.and if you have a 4x4(or you just want it more reliable) i'de definately use an in coolant temp switch and bypass the sensing bulb crap that likes to respond sluggishly in 4low.

 

[low_five]

210 is pretty much the upper extremity of a 195 thermo. And no, you cannot predict when a 2.9L head will crack (well, maybe in some instances).



Why? He did the complete opposite of what anyone suggested. They'll crack without even overheating, and how is this problem any of our fault? Although, I might have tried using the existing system first, but to recommend anything otherwise isn't technically correct.

Pete

if he takes it to a reputable mechanic and gets his work installed, and then his heads take a fat shit three days later he may have a case that people told him to go to a hot thermostat in the freaking desert to litigate.

I dont know if youve lived where it gets very hot and lots of traffic, but here is how it goes.

Youre driving along the highway in your sketchy vehicle that tends to overheat, and it is doing fine. you pull off the highway and get a cell phone call as you come to a light so you can take a left hand turn. you wait through one cycle and dont make the light so you wait another cycle while blabbing on the phone. you finish your phone call and remember to take a look at your tempgauge. it has an average temperature of 210 but you didnt set your fan correctly this time so its now overheating by 30 degrees. its now at 240 before you catch it, whereas if you had a 160 it would only be at 200 in the same amount of time. you have more of a buffer with the 160 to catch a problem and deal with it. He is going to have to be very diligent and aware of what his engine is doing.

my advice is if it aint broke dont fix it.

 

[fatt_owl2.9]

lol wow relax guys, I'm a big boy, I've been informed what I've gotten myself into by owning a 2.9L equipped Ford, and I'm aware of the chances I'm taking, and am not the type of person to blame an online resource forum for the failure of my engine. It'd be one thing if I was clueless and completely relying on y'all for every single little iota of diagnosis and repair instruction, but that ain't the case.

So I stuck in a 195 thermostat today (was surprised I got it done in just about under an hour) took her for a nice test spin, and all looks well so far. As someone else mentioned, I'm just gonna have to keep a real owl eye on my temp gauge, and get an idea of just where i need to set my fan to turn on. I'll let you all know if this does any of the things I'd hoped for, namely improving my fuel economy.

One curious thing though. My idle has never really been stable, and now that the hotter T-stat is in, the idle has gone down a bit, but is now even more pronounced in it's fluctuation. The idle hovers in between about 500 and 1000 rpm, and when it dips down low, it sounds/feels almost like it's gonna die. In addition, it's still got the herky-jerky issue upon deceleration.

There was a period for about 3 weeks one time when I was driving with my SPOUT connector off (this was done by a mechanic friend, and before I even know what the SPOUT connector's function was) and these problems went right away. Without the SPOUT plugged in my idle was smooth and beautiful, there was no herky-jerkiness, and the throttle action was totally smooth. The downside was that it lost a lot of power. I got tired of my truck being gutless so I plugged it back in, and the driveability issues returned with it. So I know this stuff has somehow gotta be timing-related. Oh well, hopefully I'll track it down somehow.

 

[low_five]

well, the thing that would be most affected by raising the temperature of your coolant would be the ECM. it probably needs to be replaced anyway because of age. next would probably be the 02 sensor because you are running leaner now and leaner means hotter exhaust gas temps which may exaggerate a 02 sensor problem. intake air temp sensor may be crazy too.

I doubt it would be the intake air bypass (IAC) because pulling the SPOUT evened out your idle. when you pull the SPOUT, the computer cant make timing adjustments, which tells me that timing adjustments are whats making your idle go crazy.


see if your truck is throwing any codes.

 

[fastpakr]

well, the thing that would be most affected by raising the temperature of your coolant would be the ECM. it probably needs to be replaced anyway because of age. next would probably be the 02 sensor because you are running leaner now and leaner means hotter exhaust gas temps which may exaggerate a 02 sensor problem. intake air temp sensor may be crazy too.

I doubt it would be the intake air bypass (IAC) because pulling the SPOUT evened out your idle. when you pull the SPOUT, the computer cant make timing adjustments, which tells me that timing adjustments are whats making your idle go crazy.


see if your truck is throwing any codes.

Did you really just say that his ECM probably needs to be replaced because of age? Did I understand that correctly?

 

[MAKG]

Wow, more discussion assuming a thermostat affects overheating.

IT'S AN FN VALVE. Nothing more. If your cooling system is overtaxed with a valve that opened wide at 195 deg, it will still be overtaxed if it opened at 180 deg or 160 deg or whatever. Thermostats DO NOT affect cooling capacity. If you're having an overheating problem while the thermostat is open, look somewhere else. Perhaps the cooling fan if it's very low speed. More likely a plugged radiator otherwise.

Yes, desert driving, especially at altitude and at low speed, tax the cooling system harder. But it IS NOT the fault of the thermostat. And no, a lower one will not buy you significant time (only a couple of seconds at best).

 

[low_five]

Did you really just say that his ECM probably needs to be replaced because of age? Did I understand that correctly?

ECT

 

[low_five]

Wow, more discussion assuming a thermostat affects overheating.

wow, was that discussion in a different thread because I didnt write anything like that?

IT'S AN FN VALVE. Nothing more. If your cooling system is overtaxed with a valve that opened wide at 195 deg, it will still be overtaxed if it opened at 180 deg or 160 deg or whatever. Thermostats DO NOT affect cooling capacity. If you're having an overheating problem while the thermostat is open, look somewhere else. Perhaps the cooling fan if it's very low speed. More likely a plugged radiator otherwise.

I agree

Yes, desert driving, especially at altitude and at low speed, tax the cooling system harder. But it IS NOT the fault of the thermostat.

And no, a lower one will not buy you significant time (only a couple of seconds at best).

I disagree