I'm running too cool

[fatt_owl2.9]

What's up guys, in my previous couple of threads I've made reference to the fact that I think my truck is running too cool, and I think it's part of why my fuel economy isn't as good as I think it should be.

The previous owner installed some kind of an adjustable thermostat and an electric fan, along with aftermarket temperature and oil pressure gauges. Most of the time, especially now that we're getting into cooler weather, the gauge reads about 120-140 degrees, even on freeway trips. On a really warm day, sometimes it might finally get up to 160. This truck has spent its entire life in the southern California deserts, where it remains, and the previous owner's son mentioned something about the engine being replaced, so maybe he went through the famous 2.9 cracked head experience, and installed the cool thermostat to prevent it from happening to the new engine, and also to maybe eke a little more power out of it.

I love my truck, it drives great, runs like a top and hasn't given me any trouble in the 5,000 miles I've owned it. The only thing I can really ask for is for it to get a little bit better gas mileage. From what I've also been informed, the lower running temperature isn't good for the engine internals, and doesn't allow moisture to evaporate from the crankcase like it should.

So what i'm wondering is, how do I fix this? Do I need to replace the actual engine thermostat with a regular 195 deg. piece? I consider myself to have a reasonable amount of proficiency when it comes to working on my cars, but this one has got me feeling like a retard. A couple of pics:

This is a shot of the top radiator hose, as you can see it's got some kind of a fitting hacked into it. I'm not sure if this is just the sending unit for the aftermarket temp gauge, or if it serves some other purpose. You can also see a little module right on top of the fan shroud (obscured by one of the A/C hoses) with some kinda thick wires plugged into it, I assume this is the controller for the electric fan.

Here's what gets me. A diagram for the supposed "thermostat adjustment", written with a Sharpie on top of the radiator cowl. How the hell do I adjust this? LOL. Anyone with half a brain or is familiar with this kinda setup, I'd love to hear your words of advice. Thanks in advance.

-the fat owl

 

[MAKG]

Are you sure there is a thermostat in there?

It sounds as though it was completely removed. If it was, take ALL of the hacked up BS off and put the stock stuff on. I wouldn't trust anyone stupid enough to run without a thermostat, to open the hood correctly.

EEC-IV will run badly below about 160 deg.

 

[fatt_owl2.9]

Are you sure there is a thermostat in there?

It sounds as though it was completely removed. If it was, take ALL of the hacked up BS off and put the stock stuff on. I wouldn't trust anyone stupid enough to run without a thermostat, to open the hood correctly.

Which would be...a stock thermostat and a stock fan clutch? What else do you think?

 

[MAKG]

Well, for starters, a stock FAN (and shroud), and upper rad hose. Whatever else he might have hacked up; you'll have to inspect.

 

[OldJunk]

Get rid of that crap,go back to close to stock set up with 192 therm , you WILL get better MPG

 

[Tedybear]

More then likely the module has a "pot" or "Rotary Controller" part of the unit. (might look like a volume knob off an old stereo). That would take the signal from the sending unit, and controls when the fan turns on.

I'd have to agree with getting a lot of the Capt. Cobb Jobb off that engine's cooling system and returning back to stock. Seems more like a rube goldberg type device in play.

S-

 

[low_five]

dude, some thermostats will fail wide open. if you pop that thermostat out and it is stuck wide open by two little tabs, dont put a hotter thermostat in there. he might have been compensating for a crappy radiator, and you are in the desert. I wouldnt F around if I were you, I would get a bad ass radiator and THEN go to a 195 thermostat. I run a 195 because I need my heater to blow hot, but if I was back in Austin, I would probably run a 180. I experienced the SOCAL desert in the summer when I drove to Alaska. It was F'd up. and Im from Texas so thats saying a lot.

 

[CraigK]

Just my opinion . . .

Your truck is running great. Don't fix something that is not broken. The "problems" from running "too cool" are imaginary. ("doesn't allow moisture to evaporate from the crankcase like it should" - Good Grief! Are you serious?) I ran my B2 for YEARS with the thermostat wide open, temp gauge needle barely moving, and using cardboard over the rad in the winter - no engine damage. (And no mileage difference when I finally replaced the bad thermostat.)

These things get shitty mileage. I'll bet any improvement(???) in gas mileage due to operating temperature only will not be higher than normal mileage variance (i.e. not measurable in normal "noise" of mileage variability.) Concentrate on your vacuum and emissions system, PCV valve, sensors, premium plugs (the $4-$6 kind, not the $24 kind), premium distributor cap, and your right foot.

Just my opinion . . .

 

[rickcdewitt]

installed the cool thermostat to prevent it from happening to the new engine, and also to maybe eke a little more power out of it.

So what i'm wondering is, how do I fix this? Do I need to replace the actual engine thermostat with a regular 195 deg. piece?

yes right away if you haven't already-- IT IS CAUSING THE COOL TEMPS,and probably the bad mpg's from staying in cold enrichment mode.i have had exactly the same setup on my 2.9(flex-a-lite ranger e-fan and cool thermostat),and the symtoms you have and had to go back to a 195* ENGINE thermostat.

This is a shot of the top radiator hose, as you can see it's got some kind of a fitting hacked into it. I'm not sure if this is just the sending unit for the aftermarket temp gauge, or if it serves some other purpose.

it is the aftermarket temp sender

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b230/rudolfschenker/Picture068.jpg[/IMG]
Here's what gets me. A diagram for the supposed "thermostat adjustment", written with a Sharpie on top of the radiator cowl. How the hell do I adjust this? LOL. Anyone with half a brain or is familiar with this kinda setup, I'd love to hear your words of advice. Thanks in advance.

-the fat owl

yes thats the controller the sensing bulb is behind it up against the radiator.there is a twist knob on top of the unit that has the wires going into it.i adjusted mine so it would stay a little hotter at idle than when driving down the highway and the engine thermostat is fully open,that way the fan didn't turn on all the time.

if you have a 4x4 you should get a single temp switch in the coolant (like oems) to turn it on and off because the sensing bulb doesn't get enough airflow past it when in 4low to turn on the fan.my 2.9 got very very hot a few times

Are you sure there is a thermostat in there?

EEC-IV will run badly below about 160 deg.

mine ran as cold as he describes with just a cool thermostat,but its hard to tell how stupid a previous owner can be.i always put my money on VERY.

 

[MAKG]

Just my opinion . . .

Your truck is running great. Don't fix something that is not broken. The "problems" from running "too cool" are imaginary. ("doesn't allow moisture to evaporate from the crankcase like it should" - Good Grief! Are you serious?) I ran my B2 for YEARS with the thermostat wide open, temp gauge needle barely moving, and using cardboard over the rad in the winter - no engine damage. (And no mileage difference when I finally replaced the bad thermostat.)

These things get shitty mileage. I'll bet any improvement(???) in gas mileage due to operating temperature only will not be higher than normal mileage variance (i.e. not measurable in normal "noise" of mileage variability.) Concentrate on your vacuum and emissions system, PCV valve, sensors, premium plugs (the $4-$6 kind, not the $24 kind), premium distributor cap, and your right foot.

Just my opinion . . .

Not a matter of opinion. Overcooling at the level described will put the PCM in continuous warm up mode. It will DRAMATICALLY affect mileage, and will carbon foul things.

It is NOT working properly. This is bad advice.

 

[CraigK]

MAKG

Based on YEARS of meticulous gas mileage calculations, including years when running "cold", I simply doubt he's going to see any real, measurable difference, "warm-up mode" or not. My opinion is based on years of observation and data, not theory. But it could be flawed.

Let's find out. I've read fatt_owl's post on how he calculates mileage, and he really has only a rough idea of his mileage. If he fills the truck to tippy top full, literally until the gas tank is full to the brim and doesn't recede, and records his odometer reading, then drives for 1000 miles or so, recording gas addition every time he fills up, and then fills up to tippy top again, he should be able to get a good accurate working value of his mileage.

Then have him go to the time, trouble and expense of undoing all the work the previous owner has done, or whatever is required to have the vehicle run at 195°F. Then have him refill the tank tippy top, and properly calculate mileage again.

fatt_owl2.9 interested????


CraigK

 

[MAKG]

So, you're telling him to ignore the control system in favor of your UNSPECIFIED "experience?" Forgive the bluntness, but what are you smoking?

Running at 170 deg won't cause significant harm. It will run slightly better when warmer.

Running at 160 deg is an entirely different regime. A control system running outside its specs simply cannot be expected to do the right thing. And it doesn't. It runs too rich and at too high an idle speed. It carbon fouls things because it was only intended to run that mode for a few minutes.

You're giving very bad advice.

It's "theory" in the same sense that I'll tell you with certainty that jumping off a cliff will hurt.

 

[2manyfords]

Just my opinion . . .

Your truck is running great. Don't fix something that is not broken. The "problems" from running "too cool" are imaginary. ("doesn't allow moisture to evaporate from the crankcase like it should" - Good Grief! Are you serious?) I ran my B2 for YEARS with the thermostat wide open, temp gauge needle barely moving, and using cardboard over the rad in the winter - no engine damage. (And no mileage difference when I finally replaced the bad thermostat.)

These things get shitty mileage. I'll bet any improvement(???) in gas mileage due to operating temperature only will not be higher than normal mileage variance (i.e. not measurable in normal "noise" of mileage variability.) Concentrate on your vacuum and emissions system, PCV valve, sensors, premium plugs (the $4-$6 kind, not the $24 kind), premium distributor cap, and your right foot.

Just my opinion . . .

This is bad advice.

As stated already... remove all that garbage and put the stock equipment back on.

 

[low_five]

So, you're telling him to ignore the control system in favor of your UNSPECIFIED "experience?" Forgive the bluntness, but what are you smoking?

Running at 170 deg won't cause significant harm. It will run slightly better when warmer.

Running at 160 deg is an entirely different regime. A control system running outside its specs simply cannot be expected to do the right thing. And it doesn't. It runs too rich and at too high an idle speed. It carbon fouls things because it was only intended to run that mode for a few minutes.

You're giving very bad advice.

It's "theory" in the same sense that I'll tell you with certainty that jumping off a cliff will hurt.

In Tok, Alaska, temperatures in the winter are usually in the -40s to -70s. The heater never blows warm even with the radiator completely blocked with towels. My friend had to leave his car running overnight every night because he didnt have a garage and his block heater went bad. (the car wouldnt start after not running for 30 minutes) One night the car shut off because snow blew in from under the car and blocked the intake because the under hood temps on a constantly running parked car were not sufficient to melt the snow. He had to build a small fire under the car to get it started, and he missed 5 hours of work that day. When running down the road with a blocked radiator, the car managed to "warm up" to +80 degrees on a mechanical gauge. his car was mechanically sound. Any car has these issues with the cold.

You are blatantly wrong to say that an eec-iv is running outside of specs at +160 degrees. there are ECT values for every range from -256 to positive 256. Nothing is getting carboned, nothing is "not swelling" out of spec. no parts are operating at intolerable clearances. he is not damaging his vehicle in any way by running at 160. there are hundreds of ford eec-iv equipped cars running constantly at sub-170 degree temps this very second. I guarantee it. None of them are specially modified electronically in any way. Anyone can drive an eec-iv ford to Alaska and drive it with no problems whatsoever. I personally have 3. he may be getting poorer gas mileage than he could, but as CraigK said, it is probably negligible.

this disinfo is getting out of hand.

 

[rickcdewitt]

In Tok, Alaska, temperatures in the winter are usually in the -40s to -70s. this disinfo is getting out of hand.

yeah but you geniuses use the right thermostat for a given temp,and hes in or near the desert.he needs to spend 5 bucks and not many more minutes to swap in the right thermostat.

isen't there some ricer forum that needs muffler advise