I have some starter problems.... Can I get a little help?

[Mutant Pony]

Did you install the plate from the '86? Any year 2.8 or 2.9 will work. The little bolts in the bottom won't line up which could give you a little noise from time to time but, the starter will work fine.

 

[gatlin04]

Did you install the plate from the '86? Any year 2.8 or 2.9 will work. The little bolts in the bottom won't line up which could give you a little noise from time to time but, the starter will work fine.

Thanks mutant pony,

I never did do that because i didnt know which one would work.
Please bare with me......

I guess i am having a hard time grasping why that little plate would make this kind of difference. The side that the starter goes into looks good. You say that the plate is what locates where the starter goes...... how is that what locates it? The bolts would still have to go the same place.....

 

[Mutant Pony]

If you hold the starter in your hand and look at the nose of it you will notice that it has a round gasket type surface. That is what locates the starter. Now, take a bolt and stick it in a bolt hole on the starter. You will notice that the hole is conciderably bigger than the bolt. That difference is enough to cause the starter to be about 1/8 of an inch farther out than it should be. If the flywheel were new and the starter drive were new, it would work for a while but, would eventually have the same problem.
If you were familiar with g.m starters it would be easier to understand. They bolt differently, A .010 shim can make a difference between a properly functioning starter and not.

 

[gatlin04]

oh, alright... i thought that you were meaning that it goes left and right....but you mean in and out....

My problem is that the drive is hitting the front of the flywheel.... it seems like it needs to go a tiny bit to the side so that it can go inside the teeth on the flywheel.....

 

[cocoasranger]

I believe that the plate for the auto trans is thinner and made of aluminum, while the one for the stick trans is thicker and made of steel. The 8 7/8" clutch takes a different separator plate than the 10" clutch. Also, starters for auto and stick are different, as well as for small and large clutch. The hole the 4.0L starter fits through is slightly larger than for the 2.9L.

When I swapped to a Mazda trans I put in a 10" clutch and flywheel, steel 4.0L separator plate, and 4.0L manual starter per AllanD's instructions. If all the parts are not compatable,there can be problems.

 

[gatlin04]

just thinking out loud...

I have been tearing parts of the truck apart and i have found numerous things where the previous owner half-assed putting it back together.... Do you think that they possibly DID NOT put the torque converter on correctly?? Would that possibly give me my starter problems????

 

[low_five]

you could put the torque convertor on backwards and it wouldnt make a difference. it bolts on behind the flexplate.

i saw the picture of the damage to your flexplate and it looks minimal.

this problem is really perplexing. im wondering if there is a way to get the flex plate on backwards. im going to go out to the garage and look at the flexplate I have laying on the floor.

 

[low_five]

Im with mutant pony now. I think the seperator plate holds the starter close to the flexplate. I think there is too much slop without the plate and the starter is too far away from the flexplate.

I saw that there is no way the flexplate can be placed on backwards.

 

[gatlin04]

you could put the torque convertor on backwards and it wouldnt make a difference. it bolts on behind the flexplate.

i saw the picture of the damage to your flexplate and it looks minimal.

this problem is really perplexing. im wondering if there is a way to get the flex plate on backwards. im going to go out to the garage and look at the flexplate I have laying on the floor.

ya, i dont think that you can put the flex plate on backwards......

I was reading about how to put the torque converter back on and it said that you have to rotate it until it clicks a few times.... i was just thinking that possibly since this moron half-assed other things.... maybe he half-assed putting the torque converter on.

I looked at the drive shaft and the moron only put 2... ya thats TWO... bolts back into it....

 

[low_five]

lol. seriously, he could have put a martian spacecraft torque convertor on there and it wouldnt affect flexplate - starter clearance.

 

[gatlin04]

Im with mutant pony now. I think the seperator plate holds the starter close to the flexplate. I think there is too much slop without the plate and the starter is too far away from the flexplate.

I saw that there is no way the flexplate can be placed on backwards.

Well, i went out there and got these measurements....
Bell housing to front of flywheel--->1/2"
Bell housing to rear of flywheel----->about 7/8"
Flat part of starter to far end of starter teeth when the gear is extended---> 1 1/4"

That should be fine right?....
I tried shims to put it further away and it still didnt work....
The marks on my flex plate make me think that it is shifted too far one way.... its like the starter teeth arent going into the flex plate teeth....

 

[low_five]

no man, the seperator plate has a hole cut out that the starter fits in to. I have a suspicion that the..

Ill put it this way. imagine that you have the starter on and the bolts in finger tight but not tight. the holes in the starter are sloppy and the starter may be allowed to move around. it may not be pressed close enough to the flexplate to allow the starter teeth to engae the flexplate teeth. get under your car and try it. i bet with the bolts finger tight you can still move the starter left and right and up and down.

do you see what im saying? the shim effect of the seperator plate isnt the issue, its locating the starter close to the teeth on the flexplate

 

[Mutant Pony]

no man, the seperator plate has a hole cut out that the starter fits in to. I have a suspicion that the..

Ill put it this way. imagine that you have the starter on and the bolts in finger tight but not tight. the holes in the starter are sloppy and the starter may be allowed to move around. it may not be pressed close enough to the flexplate to allow the starter teeth to engae the flexplate teeth. get under your car and try it. i bet with the bolts finger tight you can still move the starter left and right and up and down.

do you see what im saying? the shim effect of the seperator plate isnt the issue, its locating the starter close to the teeth on the flexplate

Exactly.

 

[gatlin04]

i bought a separator plate today, but because of the holiday, I wont be able to install it until next week.....

 

[gatlin04]

ok.... went outside for a bit today....I put the truck on stands and i started to make a plan of attack for putting the new separator plate in it.... I noticed that there were bolts missing where the transmission bolts up to the engine.... WTF.... Im no mechanic, but i do know that if i take off 1,000 bolts, i need to put 1,000 bolts back on... This guy must have been smoking dope when he did swapped the engine. I also noticed that there was some space in-between the engine and the Transmission.. I can see some of the dowel rods.... is this normal?

Should i try to bolt the engine & trans up all the way and try starting it? Would this have any impact on it?