hypothetical questions

[--weezl--]

this is something i have always wondered...

say i buy an old 85 ranger 4x4, it's in rough shape, but it's a complete drivable vehicle... after driving it for a while, i notice the frame under the box, on the drivers side is pretty rusty, so i replace it with some channel steel, weld it all into place, a little down the line the box rusts out, so i put an 89 box on... then the passenger side of the frame rusts out, i replace it, cab rusts out, i put an 89 cab on it, the remaining section of the drivers side of the frame rusts out, so i put some more channel steel in there... now the motor goes, so i swap in a 5L with a t5, now i want to go full width running gear and a new tc, so i put that in there... get into a front end accident, so i replace the bumper, grill, headlights, hood and front fenders with 89 stuff, just to match the cab, rear bumper is pretty rusty by this point, so i replace it too...

what kind of truck am i driving now? at what point did it stop being an 85 ranger?

i realize not many people would replace sections of the frame, but people do it... i worked for a semi truck shop that replaced sections of frames on highway trucks all the time... it usually wasn't big sections, but still replaced part of the frame...

 

[Twisted_Steel]

When did it stop being an 85?... When you put on the 89 cab with the VIN# attached to the dash.
That was what they explained to me here in NC when I changed a cab on a full size truck.

 

[--weezl--]

but see there are vin numbers on the motor and frame also... i have been told that it's the frame that matters...

i know for a motorcycle, i can chop the entire frame apart, and where the trees mount to the frame, that bearing housing, that's the only part that has to remain before the vin number changed...

i've seen trucks with crushed cabs, where they just replace the cab, in an insurance claim, and i'm pretty sure it's still the same truck...

 

[doorgunner]

It really depends on how goooood a day the person at DMV is having....if they're in a good mood & they don't feel like doing paperwork, they ask for proof of insurance and send you on your merry way, saving you 5 headaches and 3 months of (fill in the blank).

If they're in a bad mood, they give you 6 different forms to fill out to scrap/salvage/reapply/re-title/pass emmissions/verify odometer/etc. and have you return 6 more times hoping someone else waits on you so they don't have to verify all the paperwork.......

Hope that gave you some insight as to what year the truck now is.....

 

[--weezl--]

it's a hypothetical question, not a literal question, at which point is it no longer the same truck you started with?

 

[CHKNFKR]

i would have to say when you put the new cab on it. at this point you have changed the overall appearance of the truck. a random passer by would look at it and recognize it as an 89, to me that makes it an 89.

 

[superdave1984]

I wonder if it is still street legal.

 

[AllanD]

It all depends on your state laws.

In Pennsylvania we have a pretty strict rust law
so the laws about what parts we can replace to make necissary repairs to comply with the rust law are pretty open...

title it is as what it is, then replace parts as is required for safety

I've literally assembled several trucks from parts. on one occasion on a truck where the ONLY part of the truck that had any kind of relationship to the title was the VIN tag.
the state trooper who was doing a VIN verification commented "Make sure you actually fasten the vin tag down before you drive it....

It was 2007 and the truck was an F250 titled as a 1989 and he know that nobody would
steal an 18year old truck that looked exactly like what it was... assembled from parts like Johnny Cash's Cadillac.

Your police might be more assoholeic than mine.


Personally speaking? ************************************************

My truck is kinda like the old joke about "George Washington's original hatchet"
The head has been replaced seven times and the handle 27times
but it's still "the original hatchet"

the only parts of my 1987 Supercab that are original are the bare cab shell
the metal structure of the dash, the inside part of the heater box, the wiper motor
the two frame side rails and ONE of the frame crossmembers.

I have both a replacement frame assembly and a replacement cab on hand already.

Most of the parts that have been replaced have been replaced multiple times.

I was discussing it with my brother and we can't decide if the engine that's currently in the truck (it's first 4.0) is the eighth or the ninth engine that has been in that engine
bay, I've had atleast a dozen transmissions in the truck as I used it as a mobile test bed for transmissions that I was shipping to the west coast.
(If I drive it I KNOW the phucker works)

the rear axle is the fourth axle... etc...

the only original wire in the entire truck is the wires that go to the dome light and the rear speakers.

the only fastener I have never removed from the truck for any reason is the bolt that holds the passenger side seatbelt reel to the floor.




AD

 

[Zeisan]

I did a little research on this when I thought about putting a bettle on a scout frame. What I found was the vehicle would be titled by whatever ID was the oldest. Ie, a 63 beetle body on a 76 scout frame would be a 63 beetle. Atleast that's what I found.

 

[adsm08]

Legally speaking, all this discussion is moot because none of it has touched the laws of the OP's province. I'm not sure what VIN registration and titiling laws are in Hell.

Practically speaking, I'd say it probably stopped being an 85 when it stopped looking like one. So, after the front clip replacement.


EDIT: Well that was an unceremonious use of my 13,000th post.

 

[doorgunner]

I thought about the hypo some more....

Suppose your birth certificate "says" that you are a male. You have several operations over several years, and now you look like a female....

 

[gwaii]

weez,i'm not sure about the titling laws in alberta(you say 'hell',i'm assuming you're a flatlander)but in b.c.,if any part of the frame or body is changed that carries a vin(this can be as simple as replacing the driver's door)the vehicle must be retagged with a 'bc vin'.
this is a new tag and regi provided by the motor vehicle department,and is how the gt will be tagged.

as far as i know,this does not extend to the engine vin.


this is a concept i've wondered about often,as i've been known to swap a part or two here and there.
so where i am,if your driver's door rusts out and you throw on one from the boneyard,it ain't the same truck anymore.

 

[fix_or_repair_daily]

I have done "modifications" like this to several vehicles. As long as I had a VIN tag for the dash that matched the number on the title, and the end resulting vehicle resembled the body style range on the title, I just kept my mouth shut about doing it all together. It might not be 100% legal, but as long as it is old nobody really cares.

My '76 Chevy truck I bought when I was 17 was a Frankenstein truck before I bought it. I came to find out that it had been completely re-bodied before I got it. Plus, I put an '80s style front clip on it. I went to sell it to my uncle who lives of state after I drove it for several years, only to find out the previous owner never even bothered to put a VIN tag in it AT ALL! My uncle had to track down another title and VIN tag for it before he could register it.

 

[--weezl--]

weez,i'm not sure about the titling laws in alberta(you say 'hell',i'm assuming you're a flatlander)but in b.c.,if any part of the frame or body is changed that carries a vin(this can be as simple as replacing the driver's door)the vehicle must be retagged with a 'bc vin'.
this is a new tag and regi provided by the motor vehicle department,and is how the gt will be tagged.

as far as i know,this does not extend to the engine vin.


this is a concept i've wondered about often,as i've been known to swap a part or two here and there.
so where i am,if your driver's door rusts out and you throw on one from the boneyard,it ain't the same truck anymore.

i'll take your word on it... though i had never heard that, and i actually replaced a few doors on cars when i was in mechanics class in surrey bc... (early 2000's) quite interesting though.... i know i was told that all you need for icbc to cover a 5L motor in say a 2.3 mustang, is pictures documenting the conversion so you can prove the vehicle had the 5L motor in it when it was stolen (write off accident has the motor to prove it)

I have done "modifications" like this to several vehicles. As long as I had a VIN tag for the dash that matched the number on the title, and the end resulting vehicle resembled the body style range on the title, I just kept my mouth shut about doing it all together. It might not be 100% legal, but as long as it is old nobody really cares.

My '76 Chevy truck I bought when I was 17 was a Frankenstein truck before I bought it. I came to find out that it had been completely re-bodied before I got it. Plus, I put an '80s style front clip on it. I went to sell it to my uncle who lives of state after I drove it for several years, only to find out the previous owner never even bothered to put a VIN tag in it AT ALL! My uncle had to track down another title and VIN tag for it before he could register it.

makes sense... for the most part, there is no yearly inspections on vehicles or anything, so you are just selling a lump of steel and plastic along with a number on a piece of paper... in the vancouver lower mainland of british columbia canada (and i'm sure various other jurisdictions) you are required to do yearly emissions testing where they verify the vin number of the vehicle being tested... outside of that though... unless you get pulled over and there is a significant discrepancy, or issue... it would never be an issue...

even if the vin numbers didn't match, i would imagine the only time it would be an issue is if you were arrested for a significant thing, vehicle impounded and then they ran the vin for what ever reason, and found that vin to come back as stolen...

 

[gwaii]

i'll take your word on it....

no need to..

check half way down the page,under 'how can i tell if my vehicle needs a vin'

http://www.icbc.com/registration-licensing/VIN