hybrid

[red85]

Why do you want to turn the clock backwards Dustin? You do realize that if you go back in time far enough, the 2.9 won't run because fuel injection will not have been invented yet? LOL j/k

 

[Wicked_Sludge]

im sure he would be perfectly happy with a carbed 2.9

 

[exbass94]

You do realzie that in 7 years when the battery packs run out, your looking at 10K+ to change them?

Give me a 9MPG big block any day.

later,
Dustin

You do realize that there are 10 year old Priuses on the road with well over 100k on the original batteries right? Toyota built a huge warehouse to store replacement batteries because they expected to sell a lot of them, but they've hardly sold any and are now using the warehouse for other purposes.

And it only costs around $3k max to change the batteries, not $10k

 

[rusty ol ranger]

I want the clock turned back because everyhing made nowadays (with a few exceptions) suck.

latr,
Dustin

 

[86_cookiemonster]

I want the clock turned back because everyhing made nowadays (with a few exceptions) suck.

latr,
Dustin

Amen to that. Things today are too complicated. Cars are getting heavier and bulkier, and more expensive. Computers are taking everything over just adding another head ache.

There is the big problem with the hybrid option. It's a band aid solution to the fundamental flaws of ICE. It doesn't solve any problems. It just adds weight and production cost, and complicates maintenance.

I like technologies that solve problems. Like the Bare Six Stroke Head. It makes the engine lighter gives you a 40% increase in fuel efficiency and power. It gives you usable torque at 500 rpm. it reduces emissions, and costs less to produce than a traditional head. That is better than a hybrid option. Fewer parts, easier to maintain, performance benefits, better gas mileage.

Then there is the Zero shift transmission. It too results in an increase in gas mileage and performance. It has increases of up to 20% in fuel efficency over a traditional automatic transmission, and up to 5% over a manual.
In a drag race a mustang equipped with a zero shift transmission out ran a mustang with a traditional 5 speed by over 5 car lengths. It is lighter, cheaper to produce, and provides a reduction in emissions and and increase in performance and fuel economy.

Both of those technologies are improvements on design flaws in the modern ICE drive train. They hybrid is not.


I did a project in school last year where I got to design a muscle car. SO i have done quite a bit of research on this subject.

 

[Sunk]

I agree that 6-stroke motors are an excellent idea. I think we should start exploring more ideas like this and maybe start finally putting them to use. The technology is not complicated though, steam engines have been around for over 100 years, and I read in Popular Mechanics about a guy that turned a Mazda 4 cyl motor into a 6 stroke in his garage.

The technology is there. Now we need a auto maker with a set of nuts.

 

[Wicked_Sludge]

There is the big problem with the hybrid option. It's a band aid solution to the fundamental flaws of ICE. It doesn't solve any problems. It just adds weight and production cost, and complicates maintenance.

a hybrid is hardly a band-aid. as i said before, regenerative braking is the hybrids primary redeeming feature. if you think hybrids are a waste, you have no idea how much energy is wasted under normal braking that a hybrid recovers. it is such an efficient feature that the escape hybid boast HIGHER city economy than highway economy.

and if you think hybrids are hard to work on, youve never been under the hood of one. basic maintainence on an escape hybrid is 100% the same as maintainence on a non-hybrid. the hybrid portion of the system requires NO regular maintainence and the computer system used is not so different than a regular non-hybrid model.

Then there is the Zero shift transmission.

you know most hybrids today already use this, right? ford calls theirs the CVT (constantly variable transmission), and they use it in the escapes.

 

[86_cookiemonster]

you know most hybrids today already use this, right? ford calls theirs the CVT (constantly variable transmission), and they use it in the escapes.

Actually CVT is completely different than Zero Shift. CVT uses belts and pulleys, or the complicated to explain tordail system that Nissan uses.

Instead Zero Shift uses cogs that transfer torque from one to the other. Its complicated to explain. SO I will just give you the link.
http://www.zeroshift.com/transmissions.html

It is supperior to CVT in every way. It can handle the power that cvt cant, and it is cheaper to produce than cvt.


Oh and as to the Hybrid being a band aid, I forgot to mention it is a bandaid to the ICE engine and drive line. As it doesn't solve their problems. If scavenges energy from the breaks, but you are still wasting a lot of the power from the actual burning of the gasoline. And you are still wasting a lot of unburned gas. Read up on the beare head. Its impressive. i will try to find the video of the motor cycle doing a burnout at 500 rpm, and breaking the transmission.

 

[86_cookiemonster]

I agree that 6-stroke motors are an excellent idea. I think we should start exploring more ideas like this and maybe start finally putting them to use. The technology is not complicated though, steam engines have been around for over 100 years, and I read in Popular Mechanics about a guy that turned a Mazda 4 cyl motor into a 6 stroke in his garage.

The technology is there. Now we need a auto maker with a set of nuts.

This 6 stroke works slightly different. It is a 4 stroke bottom end with a two stroke on top. It eliminates the valves, and rev limit. You basically can rev the motor until the bottom end explodes. Win freaking Win.

 

[Sunk]

This 6 stroke works slightly different. It is a 4 stroke bottom end with a two stroke on top. It eliminates the valves, and rev limit. You basically can rev the motor until the bottom end explodes. Win freaking Win.

Until...it.. explodes... Cool idea though, some sort of limit would be good though, maybe?

 

[anupaum]

My "other car" is a Toyota Camry hybrid. I LOVE driving that machine (except in the snow because of the stupid traction control!), and I've never owned a car that big that does as well in terms of fuel economy. It's quiet, it's comfortable, and it's VERY reliable.

As for swapping out the battery pack, Toyota gives us a 7 year powertrain warranty. If anything goes wrong with the batteries during that time, they replace them. However, the battery management system pretty well ensures that those batteries never see less than an 80% state of charge, so the NiMH pack has a pretty easy life and should probably last a very long time.

For the vast majority of driving, an EV would do most of us just fine. There will always be a special place in my heart for a well-tuned V8, but honestly, when I'm sitting silently at a light and listening to the noise of all those idling engines around me, internal combustion seems very low tech!

Yes, the hybrids are more complicated, but not so much that those of us who've already wrapped our minds around computerized fuel injection can't understand. The Toyota engine bay is well designed and the car is easy to maintain. (And there's a PERFECT spot for a turbo sitting right in front . . .)

I don't think hybrids are as much of a band-aid as some of you propose. Long haul driving requires far more energy than we can haul around in batteries, and the liquid fuel infrastructure is well developed. We've invested a LOT of money in servicing liquid fuels and I can't see them going away any time soon.

 

[86_cookiemonster]

Until...it.. explodes... Cool idea though, some sort of limit would be good though, maybe?

well you could limit it with the computer i was just saying you have a greater rpm range to work with than can be achieved with a cam and valve motor.

 

[Wicked_Sludge]

the zero shift is an interesting idea...seems like just a departure of the normal manual transmission.

it may be supirior in strength and cost of production...but it will be not beat the CVT in fuel economy. the CVT has an infinitely variable amount of gearing (like a snowmobile), allowing it to keep the engine RPM exactly where it needs to be for best economy at any driving speed. the zeroshift still uses a set amount of gears. its fuel economy will be similar to that of a manual gearbox.

the RPM limiting factor on almost any reciprocating internal combustion engine is the bottom end. the valvetrane can easily be built to handle the RPM (usually factory junk wont, im talking race applications). the valvetrane is light, small, and moving at half the speed of the pistons.

 

[AllanD]

a hybrid is hardly a band-aid. as i said before, regenerative braking is the hybrids primary redeeming feature. if you think hybrids are a waste, you have no idea how much energy is wasted under normal braking that a hybrid recovers. it is such an efficient feature that the escape hybid boast HIGHER city economy than highway economy.

and if you think hybrids are hard to work on, youve never been under the hood of one. basic maintainence on an escape hybrid is 100% the same as maintainence on a non-hybrid. the hybrid portion of the system requires NO regular maintainence and the computer system used is not so different than a regular non-hybrid model.



you know most hybrids today already use this, right? ford calls theirs the CVT (constantly variable transmission), and they use it in the escapes.

Hybrids are the "feel good cars."

A Toyota Pruis cost $25,000 and a comparable Toyota Corolla costs $15,000

The Prius gets 45 mpg and the Corolla gets 38 mpg.

That's 10 Thousand dollars for 16% better mileage !

Let's do the MATH based on $2.50 gas & 20,000 miles per year.

Prius: 20,000 / 45mpg = 444 gallons per year X $2.50 = $1,111 of fuel per year.

Corolla: 20,000 / 38mph = 526 gallons per year X $2.50 = $1,315 of fuel per year.

For a difference of: $204 per year in fuel cost savings.

$204 / $10,000 extra for the Prius = 49.

Yep, 49 that is the number of YEARS it will take to BREAK EVEN driving a Prius over the non-hybrid Corolla!

Hybrid drivers are the ultimate Kool-Aid drinkers!!!!!!

Print this out and hand it to a Prius driver.

BTW, Regenerative braking is NOT as effective as claimed.

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[anupaum]

Hybrids are the "feel good cars."

A Toyota Pruis cost $25,000 and a comparable Toyota Corolla costs $15,000

The Prius gets 45 mpg and the Corolla gets 38 mpg.

That's 10 Thousand dollars for 16% better mileage !

I understand your point, Allan. However, I actually drive a hybrid and the overall expensive of owning the vehicle has to be taken into account. The single largest expense of vehicle ownership is depreciation. I've been watching how my hybrid Camry depreciates, and it's significantly slower than a standard Camry. So, when I unload it next year, I'll have more value left in the car than if I'd bought a Corolla.

In the long run, it will cost me LESS money. I wouldn't have made the hybrid choice if this were not so.