How wide is to wide?

[MatthewT]

Ok, i have Goodyears Wrangler RT/s 245/75R16 on now. I want wider tires for better grip or traction but was reading on Cooper tires site about "High-Void" and looked up the meaning was wonder if i can go to wide of a tire for my truck. I was highly favoring General Tire AT2 265/70R16 for a wider tire and they are the only AT with a 60,000 mile warranty. And i liked the $166 price compared to everybodies elses price at least $200+.

Any Suggestions or Advice?

 

[MatthewT]

Sorry for the mass of questions but self learning in-progress. Was looking at Copper Discoverer S/T-C or S/T or STT. Are these good week-end warrior tires for some highway travel mostly in-town driving, In comparrision to BFG AT or General Tire AT2? Mostly mudding here in New Mexico and clay-dirt at that.

 

[Original_Ranger84]

Well I think High Void is refering to the openness of the tread... But I'm not positive...

As for the tire... I have heard good things about the General Grabbers AT2 and it has the same tread design as the BFG AT. And 265's will fit no problem...

For mud I would suggest a Mud Terrain... hence the name. But if you drive on the pavement alot I guess an AT is better.

 

[Downey]

going from a 245 to 246 is like go from a 30 to a 32 and there a while inch and a half wider. they come stock on some rangers. its like your putting a 13.50 tire on a stock rim. when they are talking about the high void is putting is like putting a 13.50 tire on a 15x7 rim where you would need a 15x10 or better yet a 15x12. 265 are fine get them put them on call it a day

 

[Beanmachine7000]

going from a 245 to 246 is like go from a 30 to a 32 and there a while inch and a half wider. they come stock on some rangers. its like your putting a 13.50 tire on a stock rim. when they are talking about the high void is putting is like putting a 13.50 tire on a 15x7 rim where you would need a 15x10 or better yet a 15x12. 265 are fine get them put them on call it a day

WTH??

Ok, 245/75 and 265/70 are relatively the same size with the 265's being about and inch wider... High Void Ratio means that the shape of the tread is very open, and will clean out better... If you want more traction you want TALLER/SKINNIER tires in a more aggressive tread... Circumference is where you get your traction from, and a taller tire will get you that, I say skinnier because you can fit a taller tire on your truck if it is skinnier than a fatter tire... You MIGHT be able to fit a 235/85-16 and get MUCH more contact patch surface area than the 265/70-16 or the 245/75-16...

 

[Original_Ranger84]

WTH??

Ok, 245/75 and 265/70 are relatively the same size with the 265's being about and inch wider... High Void Ratio means that the shape of the tread is very open, and will clean out better... If you want more traction you want TALLER/SKINNIER tires in a more aggressive tread... Circumference is where you get your traction from, and a taller tire will get you that, I say skinnier because you can fit a taller tire on your truck if it is skinnier than a fatter tire... You MIGHT be able to fit a 235/85-16 and get MUCH more contact patch surface area than the 265/70-16 or the 245/75-16...

A 235/85/16 is a 32" tall tire, and you have a bigger contact patch with wider tires not taller tires.

 

[Beanmachine7000]

A 235/85/16 is a 32" tall tire, and you have a bigger contact patch with wider tires not taller tires.

Um, yes, I know a 235/85-16 is a 32" tire... Also, you can usually fit a taller tire if it is narrower rather than a wider tire, and a taller will ALWAYS have larger contact patch than a wider one (do the math)...

 

[Beanmachine7000]

Say you have that 30" 265/70-16 tire, and a 235/85-16 (roughly 32")... Which one will you be able to safely air down more? The 235, of course, because it has more sidewall, going on that fact, by the time you air down the 235 to the same 30" diameter and keep the same ground clearance you have, you will have gained much more contact patch surface area... By going with a 1" wider tire, you gain little to NO benefit, say your contact patch was 30 sq in. (5"x6"), now say it get's increased 1" in width, you gain a total of 5-6 sq in. of surface area, whoopty doo, with the 235 you would gain 2-3x (I don't feel like doing the math) easily AND keep the same ground clearance when aired down... NOW, you say, what about a 265/75-16 (which the PO did not ask about)? It is roughly the same diameter, yet it is 30mm wider... Well, yes it will have more contact patch surface area when aired down (not by as much as a 30mm TALLER tire would though), BUT, and this is a big BUT, it WILL NOT have the same deformation as a skinnier tire will, because the skinnier tire will have a higher contact pressure, forcing the tire to deform around obstacles instead of shearing and losing traction... When you go with a wider tire because you want better performance off road what you really want is a TALLER tire...

Here's my reference (couldn't find it when I first posted)
http://www.expeditionswest.com/research/white_papers/tire_selection_rev1.html

 

[Original_Ranger84]

Um, yes, I know a 235/85-16 is a 32" tire... Also, you can usually fit a taller tire if it is narrower rather than a wider tire, and a taller will ALWAYS have larger contact patch than a wider one (do the math)...

Sorry.. I wasn't trying to "show you up".

I know you can fit a tall tire in a wheel well but you can only fit so tall of a tire... You can fit a 32" tire under the fender well be it wide or not but a skinnier tire won't rub as bad.

And I'm sorry but i fail to see how a skinny tire gets a better contact patch...

A 235mm tire will have 235mm contacting the road while a 265mm tire will have 265mm contacting the road... there really is no math involved. There may be more pressure per square inch on a skinny tire due to the smaller contact patch bearing the same amount of weight as a wide tire. thats why skinny tires sink and grip while wide tires float.

 

[Original_Ranger84]

Say you have that 30" 265/70-16 tire, and a 235/85-16 (roughly 32")... Which one will you be able to safely air down more? The 235, of course, because it has more sidewall, going on that fact, by the time you air down the 235 to the same 30" diameter and keep the same ground clearance you have, you will have gained much more contact patch surface area... By going with a 1" wider tire, you gain little to NO benefit, say your contact patch was 30 sq in. (5"x6"), now say it get's increased 1" in width, you gain a total of 5-6 sq in. of surface area, whoopty doo, with the 235 you would gain 2-3x (I don't feel like doing the math) easily AND keep the same ground clearance when aired down... NOW, you say, what about a 265/75-16 (which the PO did not ask about)? It is roughly the same diameter, yet it is 30mm wider... Well, yes it will have more contact patch surface area when aired down (not by as much as a 30mm TALLER tire would though), BUT, and this is a big BUT, it WILL NOT have the same deformation as a skinnier tire will, because the skinnier tire will have a higher contact pressure, forcing the tire to deform around obstacles instead of shearing and losing traction... When you go with a wider tire because you want better performance off road what you really want is a TALLER tire...

Here's my reference (couldn't find it when I first posted)
http://www.expeditionswest.com/research/white_papers/tire_selection_rev1.html

Well first off... I said nothing about a what did you say 265/75/16? I said 265 wide tire. A 30" tire is already going to have less ground clearence then a 32" tall tire.

Airing down a tire has nothing to do with the aspect ratio either... A 235/85/16 is a 10 ply tire so the sidewall is alot stiffer so yes airing it down is safer because its designed to bear weight even at low pressures. Ply rating aside if you air down a 32" tall tire to 10psi and a 30" tire to 10 psi they are more then likely going to sit at a similar height because the sidewall just bows out on both of them the higher aspect ratio will bow out more giving a percentage wide larger contact patch because the sidewall bows out more, but overall you have the same ground clearance as a 30" tire.

Dude... that site i believe is complete BS... Yes in some cases its better to have a skinny tire like rock crawling where you want alot of pressure on the rocks, but on sand and stuff you want a wide tire to distribute the weight.

A skinny tire will have less deformation because of the increased pressure on the contact patch. All the pressure is concentrated on keeping the form of the tire, where as a wide tire has less pressure to keep its form. And you saying a skinny tire aired down (which you say is wider then a wide tire) will have more pressure on an object even though as soon as its aired down it has the same charecteristics of a wide tire. so yes an aired down skinny tire will deform better then a wide tire aired down because the skinner tire is wider then the wide tire (as you say...)

I'm sorry but the physics and everything is just wrong with your statement not to mention you have contradicting arguments A skinny tire is wider then a wide tire when aired down (I can see this being true), thus having more surface area or contact with the road/dirt/gravel ect..( also true) but will have more pressure then a wide tire that has less contact (this is false beyond belief, because the pressure is the same per tire as you have not changed the weight of the vehicle. Lets say a 4,000lb ranger is sitting on tires one set skinny one set wide. Both the skinny and the wide tires are getting 1000lbs to each tire. Aired down a skinny tire has more surface area to spread that weight we will say 5x7 as you state (35" squared) 1000 lbs divided by 35" = 28.57lb's per square inch, while the wide tire 5x6 (30" squared) 1000lbs divided by 30" = 33.33lbs per square inch. the wide tire has more pressure to it but overall each tire is still getting 1000lbs), Oh and airing down a tire to the point where the sidewall bulges and contacts the ground your losing ground clearence either way, weather its a 32" skinny tire or a 30" wide tire the ground to rim height is the same on both so both trucks now have the EXACT same ground clearance whic his lower then inflated. And as I mentioned earlier a wide tire has a better chance of deforming. As for wanting a wider tire off road... yes you want both a wider AND Taller tire (I thought you were talking about tread width not height.) No duh a taller tire is better! Depending on what type of off roading you do you need to chose skinny or wide. Skinny for snow and rocks maybe while wide for trails and sand.

Oh and not to mention the fact that the OP didn't say anything about airing the tires down (because he is looking at mileage life of the tires I assume he won't air them down much)or needing a heavy 10 ply tire... He said he wants wide tires to go mess around in the fine New mexican dirt and to look cool which pretty much makes your argument to the OP useless.

So I'm sorry you can't understand physics and rely on other sources for untrue stuff. Granted some of the stuff you are saying is true but most of it really doesn't make any sense what so ever to me as to why anyone would think it would work.

And I would like to apologize to Matthew for this argument...

I would get the AT2's in the 265 tread and have Fun! (actually I personally would get MT's to be BA but 60000 miles you can't beat that lol)

 

[Fx4wannabe01]

OP aka Matthew, not to add fuel to that fire above that I didn't even bother reading...

All tires your listing are good tires. Alot of folks have 'em and alot of folks like 'em. And I'd run any one of them if they fit my needs(which none of them do for me. lol). IDK what you do with your truck or where you live and the weather there, but I've been hearing great things about the Goodyear Duratrac tires. IDK if they have them in your size, but they are a really good mix of both all terrain and mud terrain. More like an aggressive AT and a mild MT mixed into one tire. Might give 'em a look. Available at Wal Mart, Tire Factory, etc. Might even be cheaper than the Coopers, BFG's, or the Grabbers. I'd bump up to a 265/75R16 for a fatter patch on the ground and most importantly, the trucks look! Makes the truck a whole lot beefier looking compared to the stock 30.5's. And if your out there looking for a beefy look, an AT isn't the way to go....MT or those Duratracs I mentioned. Crank the bars up a little to level it out, though it's not required to fit the 265's. Shoot....a decent number of folks run 285/75r16's on their truck without rub and a torsion crank.

Oh...and ANY TIRE is better than a Goodyear RT/S!!



EFF IT....everyone likes pics! I'll clutter the thread with half worn 265's on my barely cranked truck...

going from a 245 to 246 is like go from a 30 to a 32 and there a while inch and a half wider. they come stock on some rangers. its like your putting a 13.50 tire on a stock rim. when they are talking about the high void is putting is like putting a 13.50 tire on a 15x7 rim where you would need a 15x10 or better yet a 15x12. 265 are fine get them put them on call it a day

lol wut?



265 IS NOT 13.5. More like 11.5

No ranger came stock with 32's.

245/75r16 is more 31 than 30(30.5 overall height on the reccommended wheel width). Tire companies round up(35's actually measure 34.8). And yeah, 265/75r16(not 246) is more like a 32.

 

[Beanmachine7000]

Well first off... I said nothing about a what did you say 265/75/16? I said 265 wide tire. A 30" tire is already going to have less ground clearence then a 32" tall tire.

Airing down a tire has nothing to do with the aspect ratio either... A 235/85/16 is a 10 ply tire so the sidewall is alot stiffer so yes airing it down is safer because its designed to bear weight even at low pressures. Ply rating aside if you air down a 32" tall tire to 10psi and a 30" tire to 10 psi they are more then likely going to sit at a similar height because the sidewall just bows out on both of them the higher aspect ratio will bow out more giving a percentage wide larger contact patch because the sidewall bows out more, but overall you have the same ground clearance as a 30" tire.

Dude... that site i believe is complete BS... Yes in some cases its better to have a skinny tire like rock crawling where you want alot of pressure on the rocks, but on sand and stuff you want a wide tire to distribute the weight.

A skinny tire will have less deformation because of the increased pressure on the contact patch. All the pressure is concentrated on keeping the form of the tire, where as a wide tire has less pressure to keep its form. And you saying a skinny tire aired down (which you say is wider then a wide tire) will have more pressure on an object even though as soon as its aired down it has the same charecteristics of a wide tire. so yes an aired down skinny tire will deform better then a wide tire aired down because the skinner tire is wider then the wide tire (as you say...)

I'm sorry but the physics and everything is just wrong with your statement not to mention you have contradicting arguments A skinny tire is wider then a wide tire when aired down (I can see this being true), thus having more surface area or contact with the road/dirt/gravel ect..( also true) but will have more pressure then a wide tire that has less contact (this is false beyond belief, because the pressure is the same per tire as you have not changed the weight of the vehicle. Lets say a 4,000lb ranger is sitting on tires one set skinny one set wide. Both the skinny and the wide tires are getting 1000lbs to each tire. Aired down a skinny tire has more surface area to spread that weight we will say 5x7 as you state (35" squared) 1000 lbs divided by 35" = 28.57lb's per square inch, while the wide tire 5x6 (30" squared) 1000lbs divided by 30" = 33.33lbs per square inch. the wide tire has more pressure to it but overall each tire is still getting 1000lbs), Oh and airing down a tire to the point where the sidewall bulges and contacts the ground your losing ground clearence either way, weather its a 32" skinny tire or a 30" wide tire the ground to rim height is the same on both so both trucks now have the EXACT same ground clearance whic his lower then inflated. And as I mentioned earlier a wide tire has a better chance of deforming. As for wanting a wider tire off road... yes you want both a wider AND Taller tire (I thought you were talking about tread width not height.) No duh a taller tire is better! Depending on what type of off roading you do you need to chose skinny or wide. Skinny for snow and rocks maybe while wide for trails and sand.

Oh and not to mention the fact that the OP didn't say anything about airing the tires down (because he is looking at mileage life of the tires I assume he won't air them down much)or needing a heavy 10 ply tire... He said he wants wide tires to go mess around in the fine New mexican dirt and to look cool which pretty much makes your argument to the OP useless.

So I'm sorry you can't understand physics and rely on other sources for untrue stuff. Granted some of the stuff you are saying is true but most of it really doesn't make any sense what so ever to me as to why anyone would think it would work.

And I would like to apologize to Matthew for this argument...

I would get the AT2's in the 265 tread and have Fun! (actually I personally would get MT's to be BA but 60000 miles you can't beat that lol)

Ok, so what you don't understand about airing down a tire is that it's not the WIDTH that helps, but the LENGTH... Imagine a tank track, when you air down, that's what you're getting... The tire doesn't really get that much wider, it gets longer... SO, therefore anytime you get a taller tire, you can air down more, gain a LONGER patch and have more traction... I'm not saying that a skinny tire will get WIDER than a wide tire, but longer... That's what helps... Now, if you can fit a wider 32" tire, of course that will be better, but if you have the choice of the same width and 2 more inches of height, or the same height and 2 more inches of width, the height will always provide a larger contact patch... Who said anything about 10 plies? Just because it's an E-rated tire doesn't mean it's stiff, it just means it's E-rated... You can't rate a tires deformation qualities just on load rating, I've had C-rated tires that have a lower load rating (and flex better) than P-rated tires... Doesn't matter... No matter what, with the taller the tire, you can air down more and have the same ground clearance... Yes, wide tires are good when you need flotation (ie sand, mud deeper than the bottom of your axle to bottom of tire), but otherwise not really as great... Why do you think 99% of tires that come OEM on trucks are a 75/85% aspect ratio? Because it works... Got 245/75-16's? You might be able to fit 235/85-16's, gain clearance, and a larger contact patch...


If the OP is not planning on taking his truck offroad then why would he need more traction? Want on road traction, go buy some A/S tires as fat as you want, but if you are actually going to use your truck, get a good AT tread (BFG, Duratrac, Destination), in the tallest possible size you can fit (which is why skinnier tires are most times better)... If you can easily fit 265/75's go for that... If they rub on something a 235/85-16 would probably not rub...

Basically my point is, if you want better off road traction going for a TALLER tire is always better than a WIDER one... Going to a 235/85 from a 245/75 is much better than going to a 265/70, yes a 265/75 would be better IF you can fit it, then again a 255/85 would be better than a 265/75...

 

[strvger]

i like skinny, too!

 

[Original_Ranger84]

Ok, so what you don't understand about airing down a tire is that it's not the WIDTH that helps, but the LENGTH... Imagine a tank track, when you air down, that's what you're getting... The tire doesn't really get that much wider, it gets longer... SO, therefore anytime you get a taller tire, you can air down more, gain a LONGER patch and have more traction... I'm not saying that a skinny tire will get WIDER than a wide tire, but longer... That's what helps... Now, if you can fit a wider 32" tire, of course that will be better, but if you have the choice of the same width and 2 more inches of height, or the same height and 2 more inches of width, the height will always provide a larger contact patch... Who said anything about 10 plies? Just because it's an E-rated tire doesn't mean it's stiff, it just means it's E-rated... You can't rate a tires deformation qualities just on load rating, I've had C-rated tires that have a lower load rating (and flex better) than P-rated tires... Doesn't matter... No matter what, with the taller the tire, you can air down more and have the same ground clearance... Yes, wide tires are good when you need flotation (ie sand, mud deeper than the bottom of your axle to bottom of tire), but otherwise not really as great... Why do you think 99% of tires that come OEM on trucks are a 75/85% aspect ratio? Because it works... Got 245/75-16's? You might be able to fit 235/85-16's, gain clearance, and a larger contact patch...


If the OP is not planning on taking his truck offroad then why would he need more traction? Want on road traction, go buy some A/S tires as fat as you want, but if you are actually going to use your truck, get a good AT tread (BFG, Duratrac, Destination), in the tallest possible size you can fit (which is why skinnier tires are most times better)... If you can easily fit 265/75's go for that... If they rub on something a 235/85-16 would probably not rub...

Basically my point is, if you want better off road traction going for a TALLER tire is always better than a WIDER one... Going to a 235/85 from a 245/75 is much better than going to a 265/70, yes a 265/75 would be better IF you can fit it, then again a 255/85 would be better than a 265/75...

Lol Ahhhh... got it now...

I was about to be like your comparing a 30 tall tire and a 32 tall tire when your arguement is about taller tires being better...

 

[Fx4wannabe01]

Group hug? hahaha.