How do Hydrogen cells work?

[MAKG]

James, for the last time, you are getting more or less NORMAL mileage AFTER the modification, and it was low before, compared to EPA. This means you modified a broken vehicle, and you cannot rule out an "accidental repair" or other effect that has nothing to do with hydrogen such as adjusting the tuning on that carburetor (for those unfamiliar, it is NOT a Ranger he is talking about -- it's a carbureted Econoline).

You are making unsupportable claims equivalent to flying pigs (or more precisely, perpetual motion machines).

 

[James Denton]

James, for the last time, you are getting more or less NORMAL mileage AFTER the modification, and it was low before, compared to EPA. This means you modified a broken vehicle, and you cannot rule out an "accidental repair" or other effect that has nothing to do with hydrogen such as adjusting the tuning on that carburetor (for those unfamiliar, it is NOT a Ranger he is talking about -- it's a carbureted Econoline).

You are making unsupportable claims equivalent to flying pigs (or more precisely, perpetual motion machines).

IT is funny to me you can tell me what kind of mileage this van is getting,or as you say,the EPA and you don't even know how must work has been done to this engine the start with this is not a stock engine in this van.The only flying pigs I can see ,is in all theyou keep talking about.You ask for mileage I give it to you but you going to have it you way ---or no way--I know what works I don't guess I see it for myself---Like I keep telling you build it and then tell me i'm wrong---until then you just wasting my time

 

[MAKG]

I don't have to assume the mileage it gets. You told us.

And it was very bad before the mod.

So it's not a stock engine. Yet another uncontrolled variable. We're supposed to just trust that you did it all correctly and managed to create energy out of nothing. Umm, no.

You did EXTREMELY sloppy work and made very strong impossible conclusions from that. Under that circumstance, which of the following is most likely correct?

1. 400 years of experimentally verified physics is wrong.
2. James Denton is wrong.

 

[James Denton]

MAKG-----ALL you need to do is get out there and and put your hands to work and leave your books on the shelf.So you think I'm wrong---and I think you wrong-----so it's a stand off.Big deal life goes on.

 

[James Denton]

MAKG-----ALL you need to do is get out there and and put your hands to work and leave your books on the shelf.So you think I'm wrong---and I think you wrong-----so it's a stand off.Big deal life goes on.

#1 ----BECAUSES i'M NOT WRONG

 

[rboyer]

#1 ----BECAUSES i'M NOT WRONG

If you're going to claim to be above the laws of physics and/or "God" then please atleast learn to spell correctly in one of your posts.

 

[GBranger04]

i don't know much about all the physics/chemistry mumbo-jumbo but what do you do with the water it creates? is it a lot of water? if it just drips out the bottom of the car like your AC or something i see a potential problem in northern parts of the continent. for you southerners we call it "black ice", just a thought.

 

[MAKG]

Water vapor is a normal product of combustion. It's hot, so it's steam.

You cannot burn anything containing hydrogen without creating water vapor. And almost every fuel contains quite a bit; it's the most common element (by far) in the universe.

 

[airborn_ranger]

stevenf: answer to your question

stevenf: It seems no one has actually answered your first question, "How does a fuel cell work?"

Reading all the posts, I observed that members are discussing two different technologies as one.

The two are:
1) Hydrolysis
2) Oxidation

HYDROLYSIS
A "fuel cell" is of the "hydrolysis" (or electrolysis) type. This is the technology used in the Honda FCX. In the process of hydrolysis, electrical current is passed through water to break it down into hydrogen and oxygen according to the following reaction: 2H2O + electricity --> 2H2 + O2. A small amount of electricity is generated, and this is what is used to power the car. More specifically: pressurized hydrogen gas (H2) enters the fuel cell on the anode side. This gas is forced through the catalyst by the pressure. When an H2 molecule comes in contact with the platinum on the catalyst, it splits into two H+ ions and two electrons (e-). The electrons are conducted through the anode, where they make their way through the external circuit (doing useful work such as turning a motor) and return to the cathode side of the fuel cell.

Meanwhile, on the cathode side of the fuel cell, oxygen gas (O2) is being forced through the catalyst, where it forms two oxygen atoms. Each of these atoms has a strong negative charge. This negative charge attracts the two H+ ions through the membrane, where they combine with an oxygen atom and two of the electrons from the external circuit to form a water molecule (H2O).

This reaction in a single fuel cell produces only about 0.7 volts. To get this voltage up to a reasonable level, many separate fuel cells must be combined to form a fuel-cell stack.


OXIDATION
Oxidation is the combustion technology (think Hindenberg), and is used in the BMW H2R engine. The combustion (oxidation) of hydrogen is the process by which energy is created according to the following formula:
2H2 + O2 --> 2H2O + energy. The only by-product of this reaction is water.
This technology, however, requires a supply of hydrogen, which must be generated somewhere, at significant infusion of energy.

CONSIDERATIONS
Whether electrical current is used in the hydrolysis method to split the hydrogen molecule, or energy is used to generate hydrogen to be combusted in the oxidation method, energy is required to initiate either process, and is a contributor to the inefficiency of both methods.

1st edit: remove *; add "CONSIDERATIONS"

 

[MAKG]

airborn_ranger, that's not a fuel cell.

howstuffworks has a nice exposition on an actual fuel cell. They are BATTERIES of a sort and do not depend upon electrolysis nor combustion within the vehicle.

The BS described here is very much like trying to create water with distillation. Sure, you can make water come out of the tube at the end, but it's no more than you started with....

 

[mikepotts]

im not gonna pretend to begin to understand this stuff...


i love my propane!!!