Elon musk.....

[Bill]

Already said it...

BTW, did you know the average American only uses their vehicle to go to work and the grocery store? All this time I've been thinking the average American did more than that.

Okay, some of them drive to some crappy restaurant on Saturday night for Chinese takeout. But seriously, most Americans don't drive much more than work and some errands around their corner of town with the exceptions being when they drive 30 miles to Ikea because that's the only Ikea in the metro area they live in.

 

[Ranger850]

I live in Florida, my dad lives in Arkansas, my mom lives in N. Carolina. I can drive to either one of their houses in 9-10 hrs, with a fill-up at the start and at least one more for the trip (both are around 700 miles). I don't think EV's have that kind of range yet, so that makes it a 2 day trip with an EV, plus hotel fees while my EV charges overnight to make the rest of the trip.

 

[stmitch]

Battery swaps are nice in theory, but pretty difficult in reality.

Tesla was offering fully automated battery swaps (in less than 2 minutes) as early as 2013:

Battery Swap Event | Tesla

www.tesla.com

In reality, they had a single station in CA that was available for public use but it shut down due to lack of demand (or something). Perhaps since batteries degrade over time/use people weren't willing to take the chance that they'd have a more degraded battery swapped into their $90k vehicle?

Tesla shuts down battery swap program in favor of Superchargers, for now

Tesla’s battery swap station near the Harris Ranch Supercharger station in Coalinga, CA seems to have been shut down, at least for now. What started out as a company vision to recharge Tesla vehicles in the same amount of time, if not quicker, as refueling a gas vehicle, turned into a pilot...

www.teslarati.com

 

[Dirtman]

Plus you need to find a hotel that wont mind you tossing an extension cord out of your window to charge your car...

 

[stmitch]

I live in Florida, my dad lives in Arkansas, my mom lives in N. Carolina. I can drive to either one of their houses in 9-10 hrs, with a fill-up at the start and at least one more for the trip (both are around 700 miles). I don't think EV's have that kind of range yet, so that makes it a 2 day trip with an EV, plus hotel fees while my EV charges overnight to make the rest of the trip.

With a Tesla supercharger, you can get 50% charge in 20 minutes, and 100% charge in just over an hour. The really long charge times are for people charging at home. You would have to plan your trip around supercharger stations, but there are quite a few of them:

supercharge.info

Zoomable Tesla supercharger map with adjustable range indicator.

supercharge.info

My Fusion Energi is considered an EV (PHEV instead of BEV) even though it's still got an ICE. With a full tank of fuel and a full charge it's got a 700 mile range, and it would get 40+ mpg for the whole trip too. Lifetime fuel economy average climbed over 81mpg on my commute today.

 

[fastpakr]

The rapid recharge option stmitch mentioned above is a potential game changer for EV practicality. There will always be outliers that may need something different for their needs, but that group has steadily shrunk over the last decade. When typical range was 100 miles or less, the only market for an EV was in town commuting, or delivery drivers that could plug in between runs. Now that we're seeing vehicles with 200-300 mile range or more, that meets the needs of most of the market. Road trips are an issue, but if you can stop for an hour lunch and a full charge, that issue mostly goes away. If we can get to 400-500 mile range in the next ten years and a better network of recharging options, I could certainly see an electric vehicle in our family. Perhaps we'd rent something for a road trip, or I'd still have the pickup for utility use, but most of our needs would fall well within what the EV could handle.

 

[Dirtman]

I always wondered, what do they charge at the few and far between places that have those tesla super charging stations? I can't imagine they are just giving away free electricity?

 

[stmitch]

I always wondered, what do they charge at the few and far between places that have those tesla super charging stations? I can't imagine they are just giving away free electricity?

It depends on how much electricity costs in that location from the utility company, and how much electricity is used. Just like gasoline prices vary based on location and how much is used. They're anywhere from $0.15-$0.30 per KWH. If they can't charge per KWH, then they charge per minute of charging. If you only charge at Tesla's Superchargers, then the cost isn't much different than gasoline:

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/07/21/cost-to-supercharge-across-the-united-states-vs-cost-of-gasoline/

Of course most people with EVs will charge at home where electricity rates are much lower than the Superchargers.

 

[Dirtman]

I like how they compared the cost of the little EV's against a Chevy tahoe for mpgs...

According to that chart it cost less per 1,000 miles to run my Fiesta than it does a model X.

 

[G8orFord]

I like how they compared the cost of the little EV's against a Chevy tahoe for mpgs...

According to that chart it cost less per 1,000 miles to run my Fiesta than it does a model X.

Yeah, my Focus gets about 34 mpg, better if I baby it. So extrapolating that from the Tahoe, I'd only be about $35 poorer on the 1000 mile trip (as compared to the Model 3) and I'd probably be there a day earlier. For sure a few hours. Not to mention the $20k or so I still have in my pocket from the initial purchase.

I'm all for EVs for passenger vehicles, but I still think they would be better if they were powered by a hydrogen fuel cell.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

With a Tesla supercharger, you can get 50% charge in 20 minutes, and 100% charge in just over an hour. The really long charge times are for people charging at home. You would have to plan your trip around supercharger stations, but there are quite a few of them:

supercharge.info

Zoomable Tesla supercharger map with adjustable range indicator.

supercharge.info

Not really the kind of supercharger I look for a vehicle...

My Fusion Energi is considered an EV (PHEV instead of BEV) even though it's still got an ICE. With a full tank of fuel and a full charge it's got a 700 mile range, and it would get 40+ mpg for the whole trip too. Lifetime fuel economy average climbed over 81mpg on my commute today.

How long does it take to make up the $12k premium (or 3,000 gallons of gas at $4/gal) over a standard Fusion? With my F-150's fuel burn I only go thru roughly $1500 worth of gas a year... and that is a 17yo V8 with well used 4wd...

I like how they compared the cost of the little EV's against a Chevy tahoe for mpgs...

Tahoe is like the family car of choice around here, good in winter with 4wd and decent ground clearance. Is also roomy, can tow and is basically a truck for durability. Gets low 20's hwy. I wish Ford made something on par. I got tired of fighting with my wife's Edge just trying to get the stupid thing to the highway last year so I just drove her when it snowed. Since she works 10 miles past where I work so that is hardly a model of efficiency because then I have to go pick her up after work too. But hey, the ol' 150 doesn't get high centered like a turtle if you look at it wrong and at the end of the day for like 4 months this year that is all that mattered.

 

[fastpakr]

Keep in mind that the chart in the article is based on road trips where you might be confined to using superchargers at higher costs. Charging at home overnight would be significantly cheaper. And yes, the Tahoe looks a bit extreme but it's there just to show both ends of the spectrum.

 

[G8orFord]

I wonder what would happen to the grid if everyone plugged in at night? I also wonder what the true cost in electricity is to fully charge atypical EV. I don't doubt it's cheaper, just wonder what the true cost is.

 

[stmitch]

How long does it take to make up the $12k premium (or 3,000 gallons of gas at $4/gal) over a standard Fusion? With my F-150's fuel burn I only go thru roughly $1500 worth of gas a year... and that is a 17yo V8 with well used 4wd...

On the used market, they trade for similar prices to the regular Fusions. I paid $16k for a 2 year old car with 23k miles from a dealer. But to your point, the .gov has a handy comparison tool, so here's how the most fuel efficient all gasoline Fusion, the hybrid Fusion, and the PHEV Fusion break down:

Compare Side-by-Side

Compare the MPG of cars and trucks side-by-side. Compare the gas mileage and greenhouse gas emissions of new and used cars and trucks

www.fueleconomy.gov

So driving 15k annually and assuming average gasoline prices/electrical rates, the PHEV car saves about $2500 over 5 years vs the most efficient gas car. Of course the math changes with more personalized driving distances, electrical rates and gas prices. Add in a federal $7500 tax credit at the time of purchase for buying an EV, and any state credits, and it starts to pay off much sooner.

I like how they compared the cost of the little EV's against a Chevy tahoe for mpgs...

According to that chart it cost less per 1,000 miles to run my Fiesta than it does a model X.

It shouldn't be shocking that a sub compact car could be more efficient than a 5500lb SUV that can comfortably seat 5 adults. Nobody that shops for a Model X ends up with a Fiesta and vice versa. Compared to it's peers, the Model X is much cheaper.

 

[Ranger850]

I always wondered, what do they charge at the few and far between places that have those tesla super charging stations?

….uhm, Tesla EV's.