Clocking a BW1356

[elderstarr]

Tried my luck at searching.... wondering if anyone has successfully clocked their t-case to avoid the frame clearance issue?

My other options would be to notch the frame, or mount the engine/trans crooked between the frame rails. Seems like the latter option would cause weird driveline angles and vibrations, but I guess that some people have done it without any issues.

What I'd really like to know is if anyone has stripped out the input splines because of the lesser amount of contact, created by the thickness of the spacer ring. Or had the rings themselves break.

BTW I'm looking at these...http://www.northwestfab.com/tcaseclockingrings.html

Thanks in advance

 

[projectnitemare]

I know most people notch the frame. If you are worried about it why not find a smaller case? The NP208 is smaller and the 205 smaller yet. Both will fit without notching the frame. But if you want to go the clocking route I know it has been done many times with no issues an all kinds or trucks. A 31 spline trans output is pretty tough I don't think 3/8in would really cause that much issue. If you are rock racing I would suggest a different idea but for the 98% of the swaps done that would be just fine

Matt

 

[dangerranger83]

What vehicles and what years of them have the NP208 and/or the 205 cases in them that have a manual tranny that hooks to a 302?

 

[elderstarr]

The truck will be mostly a daily driver, mildly offroaded.

I already have a source for a 5.0L/M5OD/1356 combo which I know are in great condition, plus the majority of 205's around my area have been scooped up... or are being sold for their weight in gold.

The majority will say the NP205 will withstand heavier abuse, but I don't plan to abuse this rig. (It's actually my girlfriend's truck )

 

[projectnitemare]

clocking ring would be fine for what you are doing. I have seen some decent offroad trucks with clocked t-cases with no issues. As far as the question where to find the other cases you will have to go back a few years. The 205 will be in most 75ish-79 fullsize fords, you have to watch because some will have NP203s. The 208 is 80-86 fullsize fords. All fullsize ford t-cases share the same bolt pattern and spline so you can bolt them to any fullsize transmission. To put a NP205 on a newer transmission you will have to grind a notch in the extension housing mating surface to clear the shift rail. Not a big deal because thats how the were in the old days and some gaskets come with a tearout notch for such instances. And as said earlier if someone has a NP205 and knows it you will pay for it, they are getting expensive. I bought a few about 5 years ago for $40/ea you will be lucky to find one for 4 times that.

Matt

 

[dangerranger83]

Whats wrong with the NP203's?

EDIT: Reading up I see that they are a full time transfercase, but does this exactly mean? I have a D30 and its a live at all times axle. I also see that the NP208 is a non-syncro one and does this mean that it cant be enguaged while driving?

 

[projectnitemare]

In all reality the NP203 is huge, about 170+lbs. By fulltime that means it has the option of being in 4x4 all the time due to having a differential in the t-case. The NP205 isn't physically all that large but no light weight being all iron and gear driven, about 130lbs, making it possibly the strongest factory t-case you can get. For the 208 being non-syncro that will only pose much problem if you have auto hubs being that you need to have power going to the front wheels to engage them. To do that without issue one would need to stop then shift because the driveshafts are not turning the same speed. With a live axle or hubs locked as long as you are moving without spinning an axle faster than the other shift on the fly is possible. Some don't suggest it but I have done it plenty of times without issue and there isnt a problem as long as you have both axles going the same speed. The newer synco cases allow shifts at speed reguardless of driveshaft rotation. Even then that system isn't fail safe because it will complete a shift with different shaft speeds, sometimes it may grind others it will lock it. I've seen D35 hubs blown apart because of that.

Matt

 

[dangerranger83]

So basiclly the 205 is the one to have and the 208 would be next in line. Im not running auto hubs so Im safe there on the 208. And both can just bolt right to any manual tranny that hooks to a 302, even if it was a 2wd tranny, just remove the 2wd tail shaft and Im good to go?

Sorry for all the questions, cant find any info on all of this anywhere and if so, its really fuzzy and doesnt give much details about it. Going tomorrow to the junkyard to get a few things for my truck and will be pricing stuff out for this swap for down the road. Like to have all my ducks lined up before taking the shot.

 

[projectnitemare]

Here's you some more info to hopefully save you time and some money. The only useful manuals you are going to find are going to be: NP435, T18, T19, M5OD-R2 and the ZF 5 speed. All of these come in 4x2 and 4x4 versions. Get a 4x4 one because it's not as easy as pulling the tailshaft housing, you would also need the 4x4 tailshaft and housing. They all will have the same output spline and bolt pattern for the t-case. They all except the M5 are offered behind big and small blocks so double check before you buy one. The NP, 18 and 19 the bellhousing is removable so not too big of a deal because you can change the bellhousing to what you need. The ZF is huge, all aluminum, and will probably be expensive. The T18 and 19 for appearance sake are pretty much identical and function pretty much the same except the 19 has a sycro 1st gear, both are all iron. The NP435 has an iron case with an aluminum top cover. You will find the NP, 18 and 19 in trucks from the 70's and 80's, you wont see a M5 or ZF till 1988. I will make note of the Dana 20 because unless you are well voiced in early broncos or desire this case you may want to avoid it. It's a fantistic t-case but will cost you a lot. It is early bronco specific, comes only behind a C4 auto or the factory 3spd manuals. The manuals aren't so great so the C4 is the way to go. Here's where it gets fun and expensive. It requires the early bronco specific C4 outputshaft (if you can find one), extension housing and spud shaft as well as the Dana 20 case. Unless you have a complete early bronco to rob from those items can quite a bit separately. That should get you on the road what to look for. There are other combinations for newer EFI trucks but I don't believe you are looking for those.

EDIT: It looks like some of this info needs to be a sticky in the V8 swaps....Somewhere in my filing cabinet i have models, years and descriptions to most engines, transmissions, and t-cases

Matt

 

[dangerranger83]

Yes, tranny info for doing a 302 swap is needed to put in a sticky.

My local JY doesnt care to much about what tranny it would be and whatnot. Im able to buy and engine tranny combo for $500 or just buy the whole vehicle for $800, get what I want off of it then resell the rest back to them a scrap.

I know everybody goes with the c4, but the last thing I want is an auto tranny. What vehicles have the ZF 5speed, that sounds like the tranny that I would be looking for. I will just stay away from the full size bronchos then, just to be safe, also dont want just a 3 speed tranny either.

 

[projectnitemare]

As far as what vehicle has what you will have to crawl under and look. The broncos that I mentioned earlier are the early broncos, 66-77. Starting in 78 they will have the same parts as the f-series. You will only find a ZF in an 88 and newer F250 and larger truck. I'm not sure what kind of truck you are building but personally I liked using an automatic much better. I had a C4 until I split the case, a little too much power and abuse for it. I went to the ZF which is holding up ok and its nice to have a manual, but the truck was much faster and honestly more fun with the automatic. Aside from trying to convert a T5 tremec to 4x4 which is quite hard because the adapter hasn't been made in a while that will be the only sporty manual option. I'm building a C6 to swap out the ZF and for you an AOD might not be out of the picture so you have overdrive on the hiway.


Matt

 

[dangerranger83]

i just like having full control of what the truck does and whatnot plus driving a manual is just plain fun to drive IMO. If it comes down to it i can get a whole setup out of an f150 right now with and auto tranny and manual transfercase out of a 1985, btw anybody know what transfercase it may have?

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

The 97-03 (and '04 heritage) F-150 4.2 M5OD has the shifter in a better location than the earlier trucks. The new bodystyle (04-08) is probably the same but I am not sure. The bellhousing is the same a 302/351, but the holes are smaller and need drilled out.

If I ever find one in decent shape when I have the money I would snag it for when my C5 gives me fits. Problem is most 4.2 trucks in my area are 2wd...

My biggest problem with a manual is the complete lack of options. If I want a four speed it is easy, but start fussing for OD and 4wd and the field empties pretty quick.

My 302 moves a lot of fuel at 3k rpm at 55mph right on the edge of the secondaries, which is why I want overdrive.

The ZF is big and pretty heavy, only found in 3/4 ton + trucks.

An '85 '150 should have the np208.

 

[brinker88]

NP 208 has a rear slip yoke style driveshaft FYI and there are no known SYE kits available..

 

[brinker88]

Personally would just slap in an NP 205. Higher ratio, yes, but strong, reliable and small in size.