Carbuerator or Fuel Injected? Which is better and why?

[dude772]

EFI.... because then you get to tangle yourself up in spaghetti wires trying to figure out what goes where, why, and "how do i make this look stock". This is right before you hang yourself in the basement with the damn bundle of wires!

sorry ... I've been up all night going threw the wire harnesses of 2 5.0Ls and the 4.0L trying to make sence of it all.

 

[OilPatch197]

When you don't "adjust" EFI, how can a carb be easier to "adjust"?

You don't "adjust" EFI, you REPLACE, $$$ parts.

 

[Ozwynn]

You don't "adjust" EFI, you REPLACE, $$$ parts.

they are not that expensive. I replaced 3 carbs on my F-250 after discovering it was a whole lot easier than rebuilding them.

MotorHome has twice as many miles on it that the F-250 had when I replaced the first carb (after rebuilding it twice). F-250 was a 79 and the motor home is a 96. both equipped with 460.


only thing replaced on the motor home was 2 sets of plugs and wires, dist cap/rotor... and a coolant temp sensor and the thermal sensor..... and a fuel filter. grand total of $175.

the F-250 I had to buy 3 carbs, 2 rebuild kits for Holley 600 CFM, 6 or 7 fuel pumps. you tell me which requires less money to maintain.

my jeep J-10 also went through 4 fuel pumps, none of which could keep up with the engine, retrofitted with a GM TBI for a 383 stroker and no more problems.

My LandCruiser has dual webber carbs and I can't seem to keep them balanced, the chokes stick, it stinks, blows gas fumes in the cab and it sucks down the fuel...... to the point that my TBI Suburban gets better mileage, infact when I get around to it the Suburban is donating its 350 and TBI to the LandCruiser.

The bike I used to have had 4 carbs on it. always flooded. replaced with an EFI kit from Arizona race an Marine and it was 10 times more reliable and started easier and required no warm up time. no noticeable difference in throttle response or mileage

 

[Bob Ayers]

You don't "adjust" EFI, you REPLACE, $$$ parts.

Could be the case if you don't understand how EFI works, which based on your posts, you don't have a clue!!

 

[OilPatch197]

Could be the case if you don't understand how EFI works, which based on your posts, you don't have a clue!!

Wow, Bob is so smart, so he thinks. Bob is so wrong, but I will let Bob just drown in his ignorance, since I rarely post on this forum, Bob really does not have a clue.




Carburetors....

I guess Bob, Bobby, that when your coil packs burn out, or when your fuel pump burns up, I would be very interested in your "fixing" non servicable parts, But hey you are a electrical engineer, go for it I say!

 

[mudnsnow]

EFI all the way..........I know a carb well adjust can perform the same as an EFI, but here with 30 in summer and -30 in winter you have to adjust these thing each month or so.........The engine oil can last muh longer on an EFI............And a TBI system have not really more wire than a Carb engine. Late carbs engine have a real maze in vaccum line(all the same color) this is a nightmare

 

[Bob Ayers]

... that when your coil packs burn out...

With that, I can understand why you think carbs are better......At least you are consistant!

Let me help you a little....coil packs are in the ignition system, they have nothing to do with EFI!!!

 

[Bob Ayers]

Late carbs engine have a real maze in vaccum line(all the same color) this is a nightmare

This was a last ditch effort of vehicle manufacturers to get carbs to meet emission standards before moving to EFI entirely.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

This is a never ending debate.

Its like argueing wheather coke or pepsi is better.....it'll never have a true 100% answer.

Me.....i say carbs......for a couple of reasons......

1- If a carb messes up, 4 bolts, a fuel line, and throttle linkage and throw a new one on.....and you have rebuilt 25% of your entire fuel system.

2-90% of the time a carb wont fail tottally, it will normally get you home or off the trail, and if something goes out you can usually rig it up, an important thing when your 20 miles back in the woods. You lose a EFI fuel pump and your walking. You lose one on a carb pull the fuel line off the pump and feed it into a 5 gal can strapped to the roof, then you have a gravity feed system that will atleast get ya home, stuff like that.

3- A good tuned carb will runjust as good as EFI, and give you better throttle responce. The EFI has that annoying 1\2sec computerrized delay between the time you punch the acclerator and the engine actually revvs. During that 1\2 second the computer has to basically ask permission to let the engine rev, on a carburator, the butterflys open instantly and more fuel is dumped and away ya go.

4- You dont need expensive tools to fix\diagnose a carbed engine

5- Parts are usually cheaper

6- Air filters arnt ridcualously hard to change

7- If you roll a vehicle with a carbed engine it'll stall before it runs out of oil. On an EFI engine its the other way around.

8- EFI is a pain in the ass to diagnose without taking it to a shop or investing money in a GOOD code reader.

Thats my opinion.

later,
Dustin

 

[Bob Ayers]

This is a never ending debate.

Its like argueing wheather coke or pepsi is better.....it'll never have a true 100% answer.

Bad analogy, it's more like arguing whether a 17" tube type black&white TV or a HD LCD TV is better.

Me.....i say carbs......for a couple of reasons......

2-90% of the time a carb wont fail tottally, it will normally get you home or off the trail, and if something goes out you can usually rig it up, an important thing when your 20 miles back in the woods. You lose a EFI fuel pump and your walking. You lose one on a carb pull the fuel line off the pump and feed it into a 5 gal can strapped to the roof, then you have a gravity feed system that will atleast get ya home, stuff like that.

A carb is no where near as reliable as EFI! For instance, if the float, or float valve fails (stuck open, or stuck closed) the engine will stop running. With an
injector for each cylinder, and injector can stop working and the engine will continue to run.

3- A good tuned carb will runjust as good as EFI, and give you better throttle responce. The EFI has that annoying 1\2sec computerrized delay between the time you punch the acclerator and the engine actually revvs. During that 1\2 second the computer has to basically ask permission to let the engine rev, on a carburator, the butterflys open instantly and more fuel is dumped and away ya go.

Absolutely not true!! The PCM will respond to the TPS sensor in uS's (microseconds), and the fuel injectors are located just above the intake port in the head. With a carb,
there is a delay in the fuel/air traveling down the intake runners

7- If you roll a vehicle with a carbed engine it'll stall before it runs out of oil. On an EFI engine its the other way around.

Again not true, the inertia switch with a EFI system will cut power going to the fuel pump

8- EFI is a pain in the ass to diagnose without taking it to a shop or investing money in a GOOD code reader.

True statement when you ignorant about EFI systems!!!


Dustin, try reading this article, it should help you understand EFI systems a little better:

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/116_0308_efi/index.html

 

[Simple_serf]

1- If a carb messes up, 4 bolts, a fuel line, and throttle linkage and throw a new one on.....and you have rebuilt 25% of your entire fuel system.

2-90% of the time a carb wont fail tottally, it will normally get you home or off the trail, and if something goes out you can usually rig it up, an important thing when your 20 miles back in the woods. You lose a EFI fuel pump and your walking. You lose one on a carb pull the fuel line off the pump and feed it into a 5 gal can strapped to the roof, then you have a gravity feed system that will atleast get ya home, stuff like that.

1...I wish. Most of my time on cars and trucks, I have had to deal with Feedback carbs....EFI is WAY simpler than these....think 4 bolts, 3 fuel lines 50 vac lines, throttle linkage, electric choke, and 4 or 5 misc brittle wires. and, of course, you always screw it up when you hook up the damn vac lines.

On many offroad vehicles, it is obviously much more simple, which is why I like carbs on stuff that I have to be able to rig to work in a pinch.

2...I've done that on a genset...and a truck...and well, see the two lines above.

I have gotten to the point where I generally prefer gaseous fuel in most stuff, or diesel, given my time working on both systems though.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Bad analogy, it's more like arguing whether a 17" tube type black&white TV or a HD LCD TV is better.







A carb is no where near as reliable as EFI! For instance, if the float, or float valve fails (stuck open, or stuck closed) the engine will stop running. With an
injector for each cylinder, and injector can stop working and the engine will continue to run.

Even if the injector sticks open? I have heard of some warrenty issues with Fords and them hydrolocking the engine while normal driving.

If you have anything resembling a fuel filter you shouldn't have anything in your fuel system that would plug up the carb. A defunct fuel filter will mess up the best EFI setup as well. The only time I really ever have an issue with this is right before I put a inline fuel filter on a 60 year old tractor that only had a glass sediment bowl from the factory... and you can imagine what the inside of the fuel tank might look like too. If the float sticks whack it with a hammer handle or a screw driver and you are back in business. Usually you can adjust the mix enough with the manual choke to limp back home as well.

From a reliablity standpoint I have no qualms with them.

Absolutely not true!! The PCM will respond to the TPS sensor in uS's (microseconds), and the fuel injectors are located just above the intake port in the head. With a carb,
there is a delay in the fuel/air traveling down the intake runners

There is a built in delay in the drive by wire setups so they are not too quick, they can take a little bit to get used to, and they are slower to respond than most other setups. But as far as I can tell the delay between a my Ranger and my cable operated F-150 is very minimal... as long as they are in neutral.

Again not true, the inertia switch with a EFI system will cut power going to the fuel pump

It also makes for a good father-son project at the county fair grounds when someone kicks the wire and unplugs the switch. Personal experiance with my parents Explorer probably 10 years ago. If the parts guy hadn't just thrown it out for an idea we would probably still be down there tryting to get it going.

True statement when you ignorant about EFI systems!!!

So dealerships have scanners worth thousands of dollars just for the fun of it when a $60 one from Wally world would do the same thing? The more you pay, the more they tell you. A plain code reader will get you pointed in a direction, but still leaves a fair amount of guesswork on your part.


None of this applies to feedback carbs, they take the worst of both worlds and try to combine them, it ain't pretty.

 

[MAKG]

Even if the injector sticks open? I have heard of some warrenty issues with Fords and them hydrolocking the engine while normal driving.

If you are dumping anywhere NEAR enough fuel to hydrolock the engine, it's not going to run. Period.

If you have anything resembling a fuel filter you shouldn't have anything in your fuel system that would plug up the carb.

If you have anything resembling a fuel filter, you're not going to plug the injectors. Most claims of bad injectors are just wildly wrong.

So dealerships have scanners worth thousands of dollars just for the fun of it when a $60 one from Wally world would do the same thing? The more you pay, the more they tell you. A plain code reader will get you pointed in a direction, but still leaves a fair amount of guesswork on your part.

You make it very obvious you've never troubleshooted an EFI problem. Those $8000 SCANNERS (they are NOT "code readers") make the process faster. Really important when you're paid by the job. Not so important otherwise. You can trouble shoot OBD-I with a paper clip and a voltmeter. For OBD-II, you need one of those code readers. The scanners themselves also only "point you in a direction," just like your symptom diagnosis of your carburetor does. If you're blowing black smoke out the back, it might be a stuck closed choke, or a stuck float, or just being (badly) off camber. You can't tell the difference without looking deeper. Same thing for EFI.

Every EFI system has a "limp mode" that does EXACTLY what you're claiming carbs are good for. The truth is, it is a VERY rare event to have an engine quit running entirely due to the fuel injection system alone. No-starts due to ignition failures are much more common, but that won't be different at all for carburetors. It really isn't very rare for a carbureted system to quit due to the carburetor.

What you're forgetting is that both types of fuel systems do THE SAME THING. Just, one does it continuously and one requires frequent manual adjustment. That's really the only difference.

 

[crbnunit]

EFI. More efficent, less maint., less prone to failure, self adjusting to current conditions. EFI is superior in every way.

 

[Evan]

If you are dumping anywhere NEAR enough fuel to hydrolock the engine, it's not going to run. Period.

What about fuel dumping into just one cylinder? The remaining 5 would continue to power the engine...