CA: Looking for someone to talk to about BAR approved Engine change/swap process

[TSR85]

So.... I acquired a thing today. Well see how it goes from here.

2000 2wd, I could not pass it up for the price.

 

[TSR85]

Had a call back from a Referee today. They have to call me back after they find some clarification but it seems there might be one hiccup to derail the whole project. Allegedly, “Engine changes weight classes have gotten more strict“. The ranger is LDT1 and the EXPO is LDT2. But grammatically and reasonable plain language understanding of the way it’s written LDT2 to 1 should not be an issue.

Engine Classification - Vehicle and engine classifications of the donor and recipient vehicles must be the same based on Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR). Classification examples include passenger car, light-duty truck (LDT1, LDT2), light-heavy-duty truck (LHD1, LHD2), medium-duty vehicle (MDV), etc. For example, a heavy-duty truck engine may not be installed in a light-duty truck even if they have the same displacement. Non-emissions controlled engines, such as industrial and off-road-use-only engines, and non-certified “crate engines”, MAY NOT be installed in any emission- controlled vehicle.​

Also, 100% the automatic transmission has to be there at the time of inspection.

 

[Dirtman]

 

[TSR85]

Yeah I’m hoping there is a path forward, possibly do it and take it to an appeals process with the BAR, if one exists. I feel like it is so close. Or..... do it and if they fail me, say that I want to follow the rules but if I can’t pass inspection I will just have to title it in AZ or NM delete the EVAP, EGR.... and just run fully catless

So, CA BAR describes:

“Light-duty truck” means any 2000 and subsequent model motor vehicle certified to the standards in section 1961(a)(1) or 1961.2 rated at 8,500 pounds gross vehicle weight or less, and any other motor vehicle rated at 6,000 pounds gross vehicle weight or less, which is designed primarily for purposes of transportation of property or is a derivative of such a vehicle, or is available with special features enabling off-street or off-highway operation and use.​

However, The difference between LTD1 and LTD2 is described as:

“LDT1” means a light-duty truck with a loaded vehicle weight of 0-3750 pounds.​

“LDT2” means a “LEV II” light-duty truck with a loaded vehicle weight of 3751 pounds to a gross vehicle weight of 8500 pounds or a “LEV I” light-duty truck with a loaded vehicle weight of 3751-5750 pounds.​

Loaded vehicle weight is defined as curb weight +300lbs.

So in reality, it’s possible that the ranger could either LDT1 or LDT2 based on configuration, or the curb weight. My ranger was a base 2wd coil 2.5 regular cab short bed, so a curb weight of 3068 pounds allegedly, I think but I would have to find it some were. However, my Rangers GVWR is 4340, and the Donor GVWR is 5280.

I wonder if I can take my ranger to the CHP weigh station and verify, or use my actual weight to appeal the LDT1 vs LDT2.

 

[funguy26]

I say the Evap system in the ranger should work with a V8 just plug it and let the new ECU run it, auto swap it when you get a pass rebuild it and add a shift kit use the Heavy duty tow setting and it should whole up to is new life or swap it back to stick.

Ok i got to say something why are they trying to control engine swaps? I know save the earth and all that awesome fun. like damn! We going though all the pain of swapping in a bigger engine, we going to make sure that engine is running great. Like pop a cat or two on it. shoot I get my cars running so damn smooth I have to check the cluster see the engine is still running. I had customer bring me a hybrid car she ran that shit in to the dirt!

 

[TSR85]

I get it.... I mean if you look at pics of Los Angeles smog in the 70s it was bad, and the state has made great strides to improve air quality across the state. Arguably, there are days now the smog looks just as bad from the volume of cars on the road now, and no it’s not because the state is on fire all the time.

They intentionally make it vague and create arbitrary rules because while in our application it’s “easy” to technically make a “clean” or “compliant” system, they don’t want “dirty” or “non-compliant” systems from swaps that are not so simple or plug and play. I could also see it as a conservation of resources, make it look incredibly hard so people don’t even try it and it will save the referees time from having to inspect hacked and botched swaps that would never pass anyways, and keep people from ruining their cars and be unable to pass a smog test.

 

[TSR85]

Got a call back, it’s a no go for my ranger. There is no appeals process either. Simply, LDT2 are allowed to pollute more than LDT1, and the intention is not to make a “worse polluting” vehicle.

So, as a warning to those in CA, make sure your recipient is the same emission class as your donor, even within the “light duty truck” category.

I’m probably just going to abandon at this point, the dream was fun while it lasted. Had I already completed the swap and it was running good, I would have just registered it out of state and kept driving it in CA.

 

[TSR85]

After some lamenting, aggressive stripping of the explorer, some angry googling and killing a bottle of Whistle Pig.

I have a new plan of attack..... the difference between LDT1 vs LDT2 Is loaded vehicle weight not GVWR.... and LDT1/2 rolls up to light duty truck.... which light duty truck is anything under 8500 GVWR....

 

[ZMan]

So you're still going to do the swap? Did they interpret the rules wrong or something?

 

[TSR85]

Yeah, the plan is to continue to swap. I will have to try and prep as much as possible prior to the actual swap. I will look at the verbiage right before and if has not changed then I’ll try and swap as fast as possible and schedule an inspection.

I hit some minor set backs already, two waterpump bolts snapped in the block and 3/4 corner lower intake manifold bolts snapped in the block. Should have just left it alone...... one of the waterpump bolts was snapped from the previous owner. Then the stupid plastic ring on the injector fell down in to the intake mani when I was taking the injectors out to get cleaned, and I could not get it and was trying to get closer too it. I also wanted to get the intake cleaned of all the sludge inside it.

So I have a very basic 2wd 2000 2.5L manual truck, it has AC but nothing else power The 2000 2wd XLT explorer 5.0 had power everything and seems electronically different enough to present problems in the swap. If I were in “free” state this would probably not matter and I would just have permanent CELs or just delete them. However, the amount of stuff I’m going to have to swap to make the unedited ECU rom work is significant. My truck is rear ABS and Im going to have to convert to the multichannel unit from the explorer, because if I don’t it will cause CELs.

Then there is the cab side harnesses.... I’m pretty sure I might have to open up both harnesses and blend them. I’m not even sure about GEM at this point, I really need to find the full pin outs for all the harnesses for both vehicles.

The donor explorer had the keyless door code entry, what is it tied to GEM or PATS? I grabbed it too. I grabbed everything that was different off that explorer.


I know that people say that this is a 95+% plug and play swap, I’m going to say that’s largely depends on how similar the donor and recipient are in terms of options. Based, on my current assessment I’m dropping my swap down to like 60% and adding convert to plug then play. But this is all to go through legalization.

Additionally, I may not convert back to manual if I get the CA BAR sticker, I’ll probably be pretty over it by that point. Or, it will be much later down the road, when I get bored and want to punish my self again.

 

[tahiti429]

I have a question. I know the smog ref requires the donor vehicle to the same age or newer than the recipient vehicle. Is that refer to the model year or the actual manufacture date? Can you legally swap an early Explorer into a late Ranger same model year? I am planning the 5.0 explorer to ranger swap but i haven't bought a donor vehicle yet.

 

[TSR85]

Good question, I did not ask the referee that specific question. I’m thinking it is model year and not MFG date because that is the way the emissions are certified.

I will find out though... my donor Expo was MFG 10/99 and my ranger 02/00.

 

[tahiti429]

I bought a donor. A 2 wheel drive 1997 Explorer Limited TJ edition. Picked it up for $700 on OfferUp. 275k miles on the clock. No mechanical issues when i bought it except for a miss (roasted plug wire) and an exhaust leak. The previous owner said the transmission was rebuilt about a year ago. It runs smooth after a fresh set of plugs and wires. I'm putting together a parts list of things I need. Im going to rebuild it before i do the swap cause it has a shitload miles.

 

[TSR85]

Im going to rebuild it before i do the swap cause it has a shitload miles.

If the compression is good and it doesn’t have any other major issues just run it. I know a some people who pull high mileage junk yard 302s and run them till they finally blow or feel too down on power but they still last a suprising amount of time of in road course racing, what usually kills them is oil starvation in high G corners, so they just accusump them.

Don’t take a “seasoned” 302 apart unless you have to... is what I just learned. To date, I’ve snapped 5 bolts that thread into the block. 3 of 4 corner lower intake mani bolts on the heads, 2 bolts on the water pump.

 

[tahiti429]

Well I tore it down. I am very happy with what i found. Looks like someone was doing regular maintenance on this Expo because the inside was nice and clean. Standard rods, mains and bores. Unmolested. I did however snap 3 bolts on the water pump and front cover. I'm going to put new rods, mains and rings and seal everything up and get ready to yank the 4.0 out of the ranger.