Bronco 2 Starter Grinding

[vdub]

OK hears the deal,

I have owned by BII for about 6 or 7 years. I have to replace the starter every 3 months or sooner. Its been happening since day 1. No matter what the starter grinds. Even new starters, but they sound OK but load. However, a new starter will last maybe a month before I have to start crawling under the car every few starts. Once the starter stops engaging I have to get under the truck loosen it, push it towards the flywheel, about 1/4 inch of play, and tighten it back up. I finally replace it when I have to repeat this after every start. I have seen sparks fly when the starter gets a few months old.

I replaced the flywheel a few years ago with no effect. I have also colored the bendix gear with a sharpy to see the engagement pattern and the gear only half engages when new. The old starters always have a completely wasted bendix bushing.

I have spent years trying to figure this problem out and I have seen many forums talking about this problem. Everyone always blames cheap starters or bad flywheels and I know that's not my problem. I have tried OE starters, reman, and new after market. I have gotten starters from multiple sources and its always the exact same symptoms.

My last resort may be a 302 swap, which i plan to do some day anyway. However, I would rather wait a while because I’m kind of broke at the moment and I would rather swap my axles first. I already have some 79 f100 axles ready for it.

The problem is obviously the gear isn't engaging right. However, how can I do anything about that? It would be nice if Ford used a Chevy type starter.

Any one have any ideas. Thanks in advance. I love my truck but I am sick of people staring at me when I start it. lol. I actually had a lady spill coffee all over herself once because of this. ;-)

 

[kimcrwbr1]

Have you tried getting different bolts there should be no slop in the way it mounts. http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-M8-x-35m...Parts_Accessories&hash=item20be94758c&vxp=mtr
some that look like this that fit tight in the starter holes it`s worth a try get some grade 8 bolts and crank them good and tight.

 

[kimcrwbr1]

You should be able to match length and thread at your local hardware store just make the shank solid where it goes through the starter.

 

[wildbill23c]

I had the exact same problem about 3 months ago now, my repair and permanent fix was to replace the starter bolts, as they were not the right bolts to begin with. Once you get new bolts it seems to correct the problem. Mine kept slowly working its way away from the flywheel and pretty soon it would grind and not start, I'd have to do the same thing, crawl under it loosen the bolts and slide the starter back into position. I think it has something to do with the bolts getting worn, or the previous owner as in my case using the wrong bolts completely. I did put a bit of loc-tite on the threads before putting in the new bolts to be sure they stayed tight. Now 3 months later I've yet to not have the truck start due to the starter moving around.

 

[vdub]

When I got the truck the top bolt was striped and there was a bolt and nut mounting the starter. I taped it with course threads and now it threads in to the housing. However, the bottom still uses the fine threads. However, the starter only works correctly if its pushed all the way towards the flywheel. I am afraid shanked bolts will move it to far away. Even a new starter pushed all the way towards the flywheel only engages about 50% of the gear. Its almost like the bendix gear is to small. I have even thought about changing the alignment plate that’s sandwiched between the motor and trans. That's the only part that I haven’t changed. I also know the trans was changed before I got the truck. The guy I got it from said he put a rebuilt trans in it and it was nice and shinny. I have always wondered if it was the wrong trans. Its a borg warner I believe.

 

[Surrey]

Well the tranny sure as hell shouldn't be a borg warner... The transfer case should be though.

 

[vdub]

Well the tranny sure as hell shouldn't be a borg warner... The transfer case should be though.

You may be right. I know I identified it years ago while trying to solve this problem and it corresponds to what was available in 85.

 

[vdub]

I am going to try and replace the bolts this weekend and maybe even use bushings to make sure there is zero movement and see if that does anything. It dawned on me that the starter may be moving out the second I try and use it. Therefor its always half engaged because its always away from the flywheel.

 

[PetesPonies]

Although most and certainly most, Ford starters don't need any shimming, at times they do. However, if we are to believe your diagnosis, it is entirely the opposite problem. If that is the case, unless the block plate is bent up such that it will not let the starter to sit perfectly flat as it should, then it must be loosening. But you should be able to tell that. If you install and tighten as it should be done, it should AT LEAST start once correctly, right? Well does it?? Or even several times?? Then the problem arises and its because it is loosening. It's typical to find a stripped bolt holding the starter when it is threaded to aluminum. Understand that the fine threads apply more torque than coarse threads. Adding nut is a viable option, but fine threads with thread locker is a better choice.

 

[vdub]

Although most and certainly most, Ford starters don't need any shimming, at times they do. However, if we are to believe your diagnosis, it is entirely the opposite problem. If that is the case, unless the block plate is bent up such that it will not let the starter to sit perfectly flat as it should, then it must be loosening. But you should be able to tell that. If you install and tighten as it should be done, it should AT LEAST start once correctly, right? Well does it?? Or even several times?? Then the problem arises and its because it is loosening. It's typical to find a stripped bolt holding the starter when it is threaded to aluminum. Understand that the fine threads apply more torque than coarse threads. Adding nut is a viable option, but fine threads with thread locker is a better choice.

Its definitely not loosening. The bolts are very tight when I have to move the starter. It does start OK with a new starter. It always makes a lot of noise but starts ok until the bendix bushing wears out. The top bolt was striped but I taped it with the same size course thread. I plan to helicoil it and use stock bolts this weekend to see if that helps.

 

[PetesPonies]

So ten if it is not loosening, then you too may have a rare instance where it actually needs to be shimmed out. I have run into this. One of my 302s needed shimming, all was well afterwards,If the assembly engages so far in, it rubs and messes up the bushing area/Bendix teeth etc.. There are shims available, but they are not difficult to make either.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

Subscribed. I'm having the same problem in a recently acquired 89 ranger. I put a "new" over running clutch drive [bendix] onto the starter shaft. It seems to be a slightly loose fit. Also the original [bendix] had the face shaved off like it was getting kicked to far and the ring gear was lathing a bit off. I can see where shimming the starter out from the trans may help, but I don't see the bolts making a difference as the nose cone housing has built in indexing relative to the crank centerline. I have also noticed that some starters I own have an extra shim in the nose cone, perhaps that is the solution. It's what I did to my starter but it still sounds as if the "bendix" is getting chewed up. I'll pull it soon and see.

Richard

 

[vdub]

So ten if it is not loosening, then you too may have a rare instance where it actually needs to be shimmed out. I have run into this. One of my 302s needed shimming, all was well afterwards,If the assembly engages so far in, it rubs and messes up the bushing area/Bendix teeth etc.. There are shims available, but they are not difficult to make either.

Its having a horizontal alignment problem, not a depth problem. it seams to be engaging to the correct depth but not fully engaging the teeth in the gear.

I just got under my parts car, an 84 BII, and the starter bolts it uses are just regular bolts with no shoulder. I know its starter was fine.

 

[wildbill23c]

Change the bolts and it will probably solve the problem. I know I played around with shims for a while thinking that was the problem, but after a few days it would go right back to not starting or grinding really bad. Put in new correct bolts and problem solved I'm in about 3 months on this new starter and the replacement bolts and haven't had a starting or grinding problem since. Which is extremely weird, my 84 Ford Ranger automatic transmission starter never once had a problem, seems like the manual transmissions are the ones with the starter grinding issues.

 

[vdub]

Change the bolts and it will probably solve the problem. I know I played around with shims for a while thinking that was the problem, but after a few days it would go right back to not starting or grinding really bad. Put in new correct bolts and problem solved I'm in about 3 months on this new starter and the replacement bolts and haven't had a starting or grinding problem since. Which is extremely weird, my 84 Ford Ranger automatic transmission starter never once had a problem, seems like the manual transmissions are the ones with the starter grinding issues.

It looks like the original 7/16x20 threads are mangled. The bolt that was in the top was much smaller then stock. By at least 1/16". I have it all apart right now. However, I don't have a 7/16x20 tap to chase the threads. Ill get one tomorrow and hopefully that will work. If not I got a thread insert kit today to but if the original threads are workable I would rather use those.

Looks like my Bronco gets to spend the night in the garage. That's a first. My squareback will have to spend the night outside, lol. My garage feels a lot smaller with my Bronco in it and not my VW. lol