bigger gas tank

[Beanmachine7000]

My 96 Ranger Super cab 2.3L has a 20gallon tank.

Truely, how fuel does the Ranger really need to hold? Unless you are doing a long distance trips all the time, I don't see the point going beyond 20gallons.

How about going places where there is no available fuel every mile? I just recently came back from a trip where if I didn't have an extra can of gas in the back I wouldn't have made it back to the local town to fill up... It's real nice to be able to flip a switch instead of having to call someone (who might charge you $$$)...

 

[LearjetMinako]

Okay, point taken. Maybe I was just spoiled by my 4-banger Ranger with its 500 mile max cruise range. Even thou I filled up every 375 miles on the last quater tank.

 

[Beanmachine7000]

Okay, point taken. Maybe I was just spoiled by my 4-banger Ranger with its 500 mile max cruise range. Even thou I filled up every 375 miles on the last quater tank.

I'm getting roughly ~400 miles per tank with my 4.0L (+ 2 5 gal jerry cans brings it to 600 miles per tank)... With an added 22 gal tank in the rear I should be able to go 800 miles easily... My goal is to have >1000 mile range by this time next year... Which will be easily achievable with 42 gals on board and 2 5 gal cans... NOW... Whenever I get around to re powering to diesel I should easily be able to boost that to 1200 miles per tank and no cans (1500-1600 depending on if I bring cans) AND being able to run a biodiesel mix would bring my fill up costs back into what it is now but still get the extended range...

 

[alaskan155]

just toss a B2 tank where the spare tire goes and the larger 90s ranger tank and voila

 

[Beanmachine7000]

just toss a B2 tank where the spare tire goes and the larger 90s ranger tank and voila

A BII tank isn't the best option for someone that isn't planning to stay on the highway all the time, or doesn't have several inches of body lift... The E-150/DRW F-3/450 tank is a much better choice because it is the same capacity, yet quite a bit shallower, allowing it to fit flush with the frame with only a 2" body lift...

 

[Will]

The B2 tank comes with a plate on the bottom. It's really hard to bust through that plate.

 

[AllanD]

just toss a B2 tank where the spare tire goes and the larger 90s ranger tank and voila

The issue with a Bronco2 tank is not how much it hangs below the frame
as it it is how much it sticks up above the frame.

That and the fact that putting one in a Shortbed/supercab ranger is something I failed to do even though I had a bare frame on jackstands along with a hunk of bed deck for my trial fitting...

The interference between the front tank crossmember and
the left upper shock mount was a problem I couldn't defeat.

The fact that the tank I did use is plastic instead of steel
(plastic doesn't rust) AND the fact that the filler pipe is in
the correct location instead of like the bronco2 tank needing
relocation, another major technical issue to deal with...

I'll stick to recommending the same parts I used because they
eliminated a major ammount of aggrevation...

But I'll mention again something I interject into EVERY
topic where dual tank systems get discussed.

Controlling fuel feed to the engine from the selected tank is what
the "newbs" to this discussion always think about, because on the surface it SEEMS important...

But it isn't AS important or as difficult to deal with as the OTHER issue...

The OTHER issue is the 1200lb grizzly bear of dual tank system operation.

POSITIVE "fail-safe" control of the RETURN fuel.

I cannot overemphasize how important preventing an uncommanded crossfeed is...

what is an uncommanded crossfeed? pumping fuel from one tank
(via the engine or not) and ito a tank that may have fuel in it already...

Comptemplate the effect of running on your "rear" tank and having
the return fuel going into the "front" tank which as sure as god has
an sense of humor (laughing AT you not with you) will already be full...

Remember that fuel can get into the "other tank" by other than the return line... the check valve inside the high pressure pumps isn't entirely reliable...

I recently had to add an additional check valve inline with my rear tank
unit's internal high pressure pump... it's check valve was leaking as was
an o-ring inside the selector valve.

Yes,on my system it required a double failue for that to happen, but it did.


AD

 

[Beanmachine7000]

The issue with a Bronco2 tank is not how much it hangs below the frame
as it it is how much it sticks up above the frame.

That and the fact that putting one in a Shortbed/supercab ranger is something I failed to do even though I had a bare frame on jackstands along with a hunk of bed deck for my trial fitting...

The interference between the front tank crossmember and
the left upper shock mount was a problem I couldn't defeat.

The fact that the tank I did use is plastic instead of steel
(plastic doesn't rust) AND the fact that the filler pipe is in
the correct location instead of like the bronco2 tank needing
relocation, another major technical issue to deal with...

I'll stick to recommending the same parts I used because they
eliminated a major ammount of aggrevation...

But I'll mention again something I interject into EVERY
topic where dual tank systems get discussed.

Controlling fuel feed to the engine from the selected tank is what
the "newbs" to this discussion always think about, because on the surface it SEEMS important...

But it isn't AS important or as difficult to deal with as the OTHER issue...

The OTHER issue is the 1200lb grizzly bear of dual tank system operation.

POSITIVE "fail-safe" control of the RETURN fuel.

I cannot overemphasize how important preventing an uncommanded crossfeed is...

what is an uncommanded crossfeed? pumping fuel from one tank
(via the engine or not) and ito a tank that may have fuel in it already...

Comptemplate the effect of running on your "rear" tank and having
the return fuel going into the "front" tank which as sure as god has
an sense of humor (laughing AT you not with you) will already be full...

Remember that fuel can get into the "other tank" by other than the return line... the check valve inside the high pressure pumps isn't entirely reliable...

I recently had to add an additional check valve inline with my rear tank
unit's internal high pressure pump... it's check valve was leaking as was
an o-ring inside the selector valve.

Yes,on my system it required a double failue for that to happen, but it did.


AD

So, would you not trust one of Ford's OEM selector valves to work properly? Say, I was planning on swapping in a rear tank, and using an OEM Ford valve, would that not be a wise decision?

 

[AllanD]

There are "issues" with using the six port selector valve in a high pressure fuel system.

Remember the factory selector valve was designed to switch the output of low pressure pumps in the tanks and feed it to the frame mounted HP pump.

I get away with it because I've modified the valves I use


My next modicication is not to use the valve to switch the pressure side at all.

You really only need to positively control the return side

You can trol the pressure side with inline check valves feeding into
a "T" (this is literally how ford does it on the 1991-97 F-series trucks)

Their problem was that the internal check valve in the pump unit was less than reliable

Or mroe precisely there were escape paths for the fuel to avoid the
pump check valve because of the design of the "cannister" type in-tank unit.

I'm going to have to figuire out how to add dual tanks and the controls for them to a gen2 or Gen3 (early) becuse I just aquired a 1993 Supercab.


AD

 

[Beanmachine7000]

There are "issues" with using the six port selector valve in a high pressure fuel system.

Remember the factory selector valve was designed to switch the output of low pressure pumps in the tanks and feed it to the frame mounted HP pump.

I get away with it because I've modified the valves I use


My next modicication is not to use the valve to switch the pressure side at all.

You really only need to positively control the return side

You can trol the pressure side with inline check valves feeding into
a "T" (this is literally how ford does it on the 1991-97 F-series trucks)

Their problem was that the internal check valve in the pump unit was less than reliable

Or mroe precisely there were escape paths for the fuel to avoid the
pump check valve because of the design of the "cannister" type in-tank unit.

I'm going to have to figuire out how to add dual tanks and the controls for them to a gen2 or Gen3 (early) becuse I just aquired a 1993 Supercab.


AD

Have you thought about some kind of industrial valve? I'm looking through my Allied Electronics catalog and there seems to be a couple things that might work, although I don't see ant that will run on 12VDC (only 24VDC)...

 

[AllanD]

You are missing the fact that the valve doesn't JUST switch the fuel flow.

It simultaneously switches power to the pumps so you don't end up with a disaster.

Imagine switching a high pressure pump on with a relay logic circuit but having the valve fail to switch.... something's gonna give.

Trust me I've thought about other solutions and what I'm using is the
best solution I can come up with... I've had a long time to think about it.

You'll love how I'm going to integrate the in-bed tank into the system...
Currently I have to take a ose from that tank out of the bed and into the fuel filler.

what I'm gong to do is run the output line from that tank and T it into
the Return line FORWARD of the selector valve.

The in-bed tank is the tank from a Grumman box van and
it has a Low pressure pump (two stage GM TBI type)
That I have specifically removed the internal check valve from...

that tank WILL gravity drain and if plummed into the return
and the pump is run for several seconds to purge the air from
the line it will passively flow into whichever lower tank is operating.

But I'm giving gravity a hand I have built a 10" long coaxial tube venturi
so the flow of the fuel through the inner tube will draw fuel from the
outer tube as it returns to the tank.

Basically in operation it'll simply seem like whichever tank I'm running never
goes dry, but when the guage does move I'll have <700miles to look for
more fuel... at this point I need a really EVIL smiley

Remember I'm not only concerned about fuel supply to the engine
and control of the return fuel, but also about "isolating" part of my
available fuel supply in the event of a system failure, say the failure
of one tank unit....

You gotta understand when I think about my truck I'm in a
sorta "Mad Max" design mindset

BTW, I HAVE made a trip to Wyoming in a vehicle without adding
a drop of fuel to the truck... I was driving a 4.9 powered F-250
which we built with a 45gallon Econoline tank UNDER the back
and a 70gallon aluminum crossbed fuel tank IN the back...

I was also flat-towing (on an A-frame tow bar) my Ranger with that
truck at the time.

It's simply amazing how far a 4.9 powered F-250 with
135gallons of fuel capacity will go

Unfortunatly that truck was a temporary rig up, the truck was a friend's
the 70gallon crossbed tank was mine, I took it back

So he has to suffer through life with only 65gallons of fuel capacity

My brother's F-250 OTOH we actually extended the frame in the back
to fit a 60gallon tank behind the axle... but he has a 7.5 engine to burn it up with...

AD

 

[Beanmachine7000]

You are missing the fact that the valve doesn't JUST switch the fuel flow.

It simultaneously switches power to the pumps so you don't end up with a disaster.

Imagine switching a high pressure pump on with a relay logic circuit but having the valve fail to switch.... something's gonna give.

Trust me I've thought about other solutions and what I'm using is the
best solution I can come up with... I've had a long time to think about it.

You'll love how I'm going to integrate the in-bed tank into the system...
Currently I have to take a ose from that tank out of the bed and into the fuel filler.

what I'm gong to do is run the output line from that tank and T it into
the Return line FORWARD of the selector valve.

The in-bed tank is the tank from a Grumman box van and
it has a Low pressure pump (two stage GM TBI type)
That I have specifically removed the internal check valve from...

that tank WILL gravity drain and if plummed into the return
and the pump is run for several seconds to purge the air from
the line it will passively flow into whichever lower tank is operating.

But I'm giving gravity a hand I have built a 10" long coaxial tube venturi
so the flow of the fuel through the inner tube will draw fuel from the
outer tube as it returns to the tank.

Basically in operation it'll simply seem like whichever tank I'm running never
goes dry, but when the guage does move I'll have <700miles to look for
more fuel... at this point I need a really EVIL smiley

Remember I'm not only concerned about fuel supply to the engine
and control of the return fuel, but also about "isolating" part of my
available fuel supply in the event of a system failure, say the failure
of one tank unit....

You gotta understand when I think about my truck I'm in a
sorta "Mad Max" design mindset

BTW, I HAVE made a trip to Wyoming in a vehicle without adding
a drop of fuel to the truck... I was driving a 4.9 powered F-250
which we built with a 45gallon Econoline tank UNDER the back
and a 70gallon aluminum crossbed fuel tank IN the back...

I was also flat-towing (on an A-frame tow bar) my Ranger with that
truck at the time.

It's simply amazing how far a 4.9 powered F-250 with
135gallons of fuel capacity will go

Unfortunatly that truck was a temporary rig up, the truck was a friend's
the 70gallon crossbed tank was mine, I took it back

So he has to suffer through life with only 65gallons of fuel capacity

My brother's F-250 OTOH we actually extended the frame in the back
to fit a 60gallon tank behind the axle... but he has a 7.5 engine to burn it up with...

AD

Ok, I didn't realize the selector valve also switched the pumps on and off, I though there was a separate circuit for that... I've been trying to find some type of schematic or layout or something of how it is done in the F-series (EFI) but I can't seem to find anything anywhere....

 

[AllanD]

Ok, I didn't realize the selector valve also switched the pumps on and off, I though there was a separate circuit for that... I've been trying to find some type of schematic or layout or something of how it is done in the F-series (EFI) but I can't seem to find anything anywhere....

What year F-series? because it makes a difference... a big difference.

On the early EFI trucks up to 1990 0r 91 theyused a fuel pump similar to the gen1 rangers, low pressure pumps in the tank a mechanical selector valve
and a high pressure pump further forward.

they did have a selector valve but it was a diaphram actuated
valve... there is a diaphram housing on top of the unit
and which ever pump was running (and generating fuel pressure)
would pop the valve through a stiff detent and open both the
pressure and return to that tank.

when you switched tanks it'd pop the other way.

The rub is that the valve is ENTIRELY mechanical, has Nothing to do with switching the pumps or the guage sensors all that is entirely handled by the switching. The REAL rub is the valve is freakin HUGE because it has a reservoir cannister built into the bottom of it...

The LATER F-series 91 or 92 up have a high pressure pump in each tank and NO "Selector Valve" whatsoever, there are literally t-fittings brazed into the stainless steel fuel lines.

The system powers the pumps and depends on the outflow check
valve on each pump AND the pressure driven spring loaded shuttle
valve to open the return line to the tank that's running.

Again, all the switching (guage and power) is done in the dash.

This '92-97 fuel system scheme could potentially be implemented in a ranger IF you went with the F-350/450 tank I run in the back (it has a cannister type unit) AND you made a modified pickup assembly that used a cannister
type pump in the front tank...

Trust me a system like that is my ultimate goal
(and just use the selector valve as a pump control unit
and who cares what the valves are doing...)


you wanted to know, all ya had to do was ask

AD

 

[Beanmachine7000]

Ok, now since I'm asking so many questions, you wouldn't happen to know of a tank that would fit on the passenger side? Like the stock fuel tank, except reversed and put on the pass side (I know there is exhaust in the way, but I can work around that)...

 

[JamesC]

couldn't you just have a regular fuel system with one tank and one feed return and vent or whatever then have low pressure pumps in your aux tanks pump to fuel to the main tank. just put the pumps on a switch to pump in the main tank when it starts to get low.