Best Off-Road Ranger

[scotts90ranger]

My 89 Ranger has stock steering and suspension, other than the addition of 1.5"-2" Rough Country coil springs and shocks. The alignment shop I took it too is run by a father and son who both own multiple 1980s and 90s era F150s and Rangers. They know TTB setups. They did install adjustable cam bushings when they did the alignment. My steering just feels erratic and is hard to hold my lane.

searching for center is definitely caster, either go back to the shop and ask for an adjustment or make some tweaks yourself... In the 13ish years I've had modified TTB/TIB suspensions I haven't paid for an alignment and they've always drove pretty decent, but I do have an engineering degree and a second in redneckery... . That said the fully adjustable alignment bushings are kinda a pain to figure out, they come with a chart that might make sense in the right case but I ignore it and get the camber close and make sure there's some caster which annoyingly there's not much of a reference for to measure... which probably explains your issue.

 

[bobbywalter]

thats what i was going to say...


diy can bring some issues.

i have seen caster positive on one side and neg on the other but the camber was dead on. that was ridiculous to try and drive.

i drove it and pretty much knew what it had to be. it was 2.5 fixed bushings....

just had to turn it back and it was perfect.

 

[Curious Hound]

searching for center is definitely caster, either go back to the shop and ask for an adjustment or make some tweaks yourself... In the 13ish years I've had modified TTB/TIB suspensions I haven't paid for an alignment and they've always drove pretty decent, but I do have an engineering degree and a second in redneckery... . That said the fully adjustable alignment bushings are kinda a pain to figure out, they come with a chart that might make sense in the right case but I ignore it and get the camber close and make sure there's some caster which annoyingly there's not much of a reference for to measure... which probably explains your issue.

That is a better description of what I do, than I could word myself. What hurts me the most is that I don't have a flat, level surface to work on. But it can still be done, once you understand the geometry.

 

[Curious Hound]

And it can vary within a couple feet in an area too.

Around me mud isn't much fun, it is usually bottomless if you get to digging too much.



Most things with ag tires can't get enough wheelspeed to clean them... as they are not really intended to be used in mud. This is me a couple years ago.

Looks like you got in the field a few days too early.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Looks like you got in the field a few days too early.

Actually it was late... with rain coming. It was a really wet year.

 

[sgtsandman]

Everyone's experience is going to differ with mud and AT vs MT tires. With my 2011, I never had a problem with the KO2s anywhere I went off roading and in some instances, did better than a truck that should have had an easier time getting up a path.

That being said, I had zero problems with the MTs on the 2019, though I did have to engage the rear locker at one point to keep the rear end from kicking out (something I didn't experience in the 2011 and it has no rear locker).

Different locations with each truck. So, I can't provide an apples to apples comparison there. But the dimensions and wheel base between the two is close enough that comparisons between the two can be made on the same trail.

That being said, an AT will generally get you where you need to go and is a great choice for someone that doesn't have a dedicated rig and/or doesn't off road all the time as long as you pick a good tire.

An MT is obviously going to be a better off road tire but most are not a great winter tire, so you will need another set for winter driving. If you off road a lot, this may be the better option to go with, though it is less budget friendly. Those who don't deal with ice and snow won't need to worry about a second set of tires, unless tire wear and fuel economy are considerations.

 

[00t444e]

Why does everyone think MT tires don't do good in the snow? In 15 years of using them I have never had an issue with MT tires in the snow, never got stuck, and with MT tires I have pulled dozens of people out of ditches or up hills that their vehicles couldn't make it. We don't get a great amount of snow like further north, but we have got 10-12 inches several times and I got around great with 4x4 and MT tires. I guess some people just can't drive in the snow period.

 

[Curious Hound]

Why does everyone think MT tires don't do good in the snow? In 15 years of using them I have never had an issue with MT tires in the snow, never got stuck, and with MT tires I have pulled dozens of people out of ditches or up hills that their vehicles couldn't make it. We don't get a great amount of snow like further north, but we have got 10-12 inches several times and I got around great with 4x4 and MT tires. I guess some people just can't drive in the snow period.

It's another "it depends" kind of thing. Everyone's experiences may be different. Wetter snow, dryer snow, deeper, less deep, with or without ice underneath, etc.

Generally speaking, the tire engineers and experts say that for better snow performance, a tire should have numerous small lugs and lots if sipes, which are tiny little cuts and slits in the lugs. I don't remember all the details why.

I, too, have driven in lots of snow with mud tires and AT tires and never had a problem. That doesn't mean that snow tires would not have been better. That just means that my skills and vehicle were "good enough" for the conditions. In fact, my first car was an AMC Eagle SX4. It was 4x4 and I only ever put premium quality all season tires on it. Never once bought snow tires. I drove all over Pennsylvania, New York, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachusetts and Vermont in that car in the winter time. It always got me where I needed to go.

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

Why does everyone think MT tires don't do good in the snow? In 15 years of using them I have never had an issue with MT tires in the snow, never got stuck, and with MT tires I have pulled dozens of people out of ditches or up hills that their vehicles couldn't make it. We don't get a great amount of snow like further north, but we have got 10-12 inches several times and I got around great with 4x4 and MT tires. I guess some people just can't drive in the snow period.

It’s a bit of a situational thing. I’ve found that for an all-around tire an aggressive AT pattern works well with all of my trucks in all conditions I encounter around here. MT tires also work, but they do better in deeper snow than little snow or packed snow/ice. At least around here, and with my trucks.

It’s also a bit of a vehicle thing too. My friends car we put snow tires on one winter because the car needed tires right before winter. I had driven the car on regular all seasons a bunch during the winter and it went well enough. The snow tires were a world of difference. It was like a tank. There’s no putting mud tires on that car without a 4x4 frame and all. But snow tires were impressively better than all seasons. Another example, my mom’s Murano. It’s “AWD” but sucked in the snow on all seasons. Due to the tire and rim size, all season tires and snow tires are your only options. We got an extra set of rims and snow tires for it. Now it’s decent in the snow.

Of course, there’s also just a lot of bad drivers out there and drivers that don’t know better. Those are usually the ones who find somewhere to get stuck.

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

It's another "it depends" kind of thing. Everyone's experiences may be different. Wetter snow, dryer snow, deeper, less deep, with or without ice underneath, etc.

Generally speaking, the tire engineers and experts say that for better snow performance, a tire should have numerous small lugs and lots if sipes, which are tiny little cuts and slits in the lugs. I don't remember all the details why.

I, too, have driven in lots of snow with mud tires and AT tires and never had a problem. That doesn't mean that snow tires would not have been better. That just means that my skills and vehicle were "good enough" for the conditions. In fact, my first car was an AMC Eagle SX4. It was 4x4 and I only ever put premium quality all season tires on it. Never once bought snow tires. I drove all over Pennsylvania, New York, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachusetts and Vermont in that car in the winter time. It always got me where I needed to go.

The siping is to allow the tread to spread and sort of suction-cup to the ground, snow, ice, pavement, etc. That’s also why winter tires are a softer rubber compound and shouldn’t be run in summer months because they will wear faster in the heat. The soft rubber with lots of siping helps the suction cup effect. Short of studs or chains, that’s the best way we’ve found to get a grip on ice other than imbedding grit into the tread, and even those types usually are soft rubber with lots of sipes.

 

[MaicoDoug]

I've seen recent changes in the off-road tire market lately. Seems not only have manufacturers haved moved away from the US, tread styles have changed also. What used to look like mud swampers have a more than 60% center of the tire population of rubber. So the outside still has aggressive lugs, but the center has the solid area that works well on pavement. So much so that Discount Tire gave me a mileage warranty on my set of Mickey Thompson Deegan 38. Never do they do that with any "off-road tire". Their loud. I do however have a soft spot for the very nice General Grabbers, especially the frustrated librarian commercials. Love her surfboard.....

No comment on the short sidewall mall crawler tires, sheesh.

 

[sgtsandman]

As others have mentioned, when it comes to snow, it depends on the conditions as to whether they are any good or not.

A thin, powdery coat is going to be different from a thin, wet coat. The same goes for deeper snow. So the ability to drive in the stuff isn't necessarily the issue but the type of coating and how much.

A mud tire can handle deep snow well enough and modern designs have changed mud tire tread the design. So they are a lot better than they were.

Snow tires, and all season and all terrains to a lesser degree, are designed to trap snow in the tread since nothing grips snow like more snow. Siping plays a part as well. Snow tires have a lot of them. Mud tires tend to have some but not a lot. Again, all season and all terrains are in between.

When it comes to all season tires, there are some that are more of a rain tire than an all season design. You can tell by the tread design. They usually have large water grooves and not much in the way of a tread pattern to grab and grip loose stuff.

No tire is going to be THE answer for everything. They are going to do some things very well and the others are going to be some kind of compromise. A mud tire is designed to excell in mud. A snow tire is going to excell in snow and ice to some degree. The rest is going to be a compromise with a focus towards certain criteria. Like all season tires, some ATs are going to be pretty good in snow and others are going to suck.

Here in PA, we often get thin layers of snow and I'm often out on the roads before the snow plows are. "Good enough" isn't good enough for me. They have to be excellent and a mud tire isn't going to be excellent. There are times that the only reason I made from point A to point B with out a wreck or ended up in the median was because I didn't go " good enough", especially the few times we had flash freezes.

So, if @00t444e wants to run mud tires and they are "good enough" for him, more power to him. We aren't here to prove how much better we are than others or to compare "equipment" sizes.

 

[00t444e]

The mud tires I use are excellent in the snow and ice, don't have one complaint. Try some Mastercraft Courser MXTs if you don't believe me.

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

The mud tires I use are excellent in the snow and ice, don't have one complaint. Try some Mastercraft Courser MXTs if you don't believe me.

I think we got the idea.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and preferences.

 

[bobbywalter]