Bad idea to change trans fluid on older truck?

[4x4RangerGuy]

further more, if there is shit that big breaking lose, or kinda floating around in there, then the trany is already on its way out. Flushing a trans does NOT hurt it. Its not being blasted with high pressure cleaning fluids. Its juss getting some clean oil circulated through it. And no, flushing does not help with the oil in the torque converter, but most auto/light truck converters have drains. Every converter used in large applications has a drain, but is seldom used for some reason. Most likly its from people talking about the ATF monsters lol.

I have yet to encounter a light truck so far that has an OEM drain plug on it. I've installed a couple though.

I understand how hydraulic pumps work. I don't know the specific part or what its called where it gets stuck, but when I received my pump back (after requesting it out of curiosity) there was sludge (a mixture of clutch material) caked onto said section. Seeing as fluid was moving through it, I could only imagine how much harder this must have made it. Now, why after 100 miles after flushing would the tranny just shit the bed? It had NO symptoms (slipping, hard shifts, etc.). I put it into gear, went about a mile and it blew up. Usually a transmission failure comes with symptoms. Mine had none. I attribute it to flushing. Also, shortly after flushing my friends' transmissions (again, old Fords and Audis), they experienced slipping and eventual failure. I know how to flush, even on Audis which require a special tool to refill the pan.

I don't work with transmissions because they're finicky. I send all my major work to my local transmission rebuilder. I do flushes all the time, especially on the Audis and VWs the salesmen buy to resell. However, on older vehicles, my experience has been mostly negative. I don't offer a warranty on flushes for older vehicles because they always come back with problems.

 

[86ford]

i have heard and in some ways see the truth in both arguments. but i drive a STANDARD TRANS for a reason!!

86

 

[Broncodude]

Here's what my son does at there transmission shop. If the fluid is "at all" smelly/abnormal and or discolored other than normal they refuse to change it. This is true of the grit helping the clutches work better. They are scared to change any fluid on cars/truck with over 75-80,000. I recently refused to change the fluid on a relatives toyota when it smelled bad and had 120,000 on it. Its your choice, but you've had a warning..

 

[Broncodude]

Also, they've had several people with transmission failures where someone else had changed it.

 

[4x4RangerGuy]

i have heard and in some ways see the truth in both arguments. but i drive a STANDARD TRANS for a reason!!

86

+1

With manuals you don't have to work about this kind of crap. Just keep the fluid topped off and you're golden.

 

[Ranger5.0]

lol, man, a lot of people seam to think automatic tranys are a mystery. Ok, so, would you want any type of grit between your flywheel and clutch disks on a manual trany? I hope everyone agree's and says no. Now, take some wet clutch's, same thing, except they are cooled by oil. Oil that has friction modifiers in it that work with the specific friction material. Thats why back in the 70's and 80's you had to use a specific ATF with a specific trany. Hell, Catapillar's clutch's are steel disks with rubber on ever other disk. You cant honestly believe that flushing of the trany is what caused the problem. Maybe the compleat lack of maintanance was the cause, and the result is damaged to the clutchs. flushing a trany does not peel off friction materieal. infact, with the engine off, there realy isnt much oil reaching the clutch's. the way you are explaining your pump means that it was starving for oil. a restriction on the discharge will make the pump "work harder" as you put it. a restriction on the inlit will cause airation of the oil, and cavitation erosion within the pump. Bottom line is, that shit was ALWAYS floating around the trany. So your asking why your trany failed 100 miles after the flush. Ok, fair enough. WHAT failed. Did it stop shifting? did the shifting change? was a clutch or band sliping? Like what happened. Auto tranys arnt that hard to understand. you move the shifter, which moves a valve which diverts oil to a servo or clutch apply piston, clutch applys vehicle moves. There is lube oil and then supply and clutch apply oil. If your trany failed, it was most likly fucked befor the flush. If it was neglected then no wounder. Tranys arnt some mystical thing. Its a component, if neglected, it fails. I used to run away from automatics, now that i know how they work, I'd take one over a manual any day.

 

[Ranger5.0]

anyways to answer Sworn's question, No, getting is flushed will not hurt it. Dont take it to midas or some gay 20 minut tune up place, thouse kids runing the hoses cant do much more then tie there boot laces. If your serious about getting it flushed, take it to a GOOD trany shop, have them replace the filter...a new gasket comes with it, so that fix's the leak. And ask them to flush the trany. They will know what they are doing.

 

[4x4RangerGuy]

lol, man, a lot of people seam to think automatic tranys are a mystery. Ok, so, would you want any type of grit between your flywheel and clutch disks on a manual trany? I hope everyone agree's and says no. Now, take some wet clutch's, same thing, except they are cooled by oil. Oil that has friction modifiers in it that work with the specific friction material. Thats why back in the 70's and 80's you had to use a specific ATF with a specific trany. Hell, Catapillar's clutch's are steel disks with rubber on ever other disk. You cant honestly believe that flushing of the trany is what caused the problem. Maybe the compleat lack of maintanance was the cause, and the result is damaged to the clutchs. flushing a trany does not peel off friction materieal. infact, with the engine off, there realy isnt much oil reaching the clutch's. the way you are explaining your pump means that it was starving for oil. a restriction on the discharge will make the pump "work harder" as you put it. a restriction on the inlit will cause airation of the oil, and cavitation erosion within the pump. Bottom line is, that shit was ALWAYS floating around the trany. So your asking why your trany failed 100 miles after the flush. Ok, fair enough. WHAT failed. Did it stop shifting? did the shifting change? was a clutch or band sliping? Like what happened. Auto tranys arnt that hard to understand. you move the shifter, which moves a valve which diverts oil to a servo or clutch apply piston, clutch applys vehicle moves. There is lube oil and then supply and clutch apply oil. If your trany failed, it was most likly fucked befor the flush. If it was neglected then no wounder. Tranys arnt some mystical thing. Its a component, if neglected, it fails. I used to run away from automatics, now that i know how they work, I'd take one over a manual any day.

The pump failed, and with it went the torque converter clutch and another set of clutches (I can't remember off the top of my head). It went bang and that was the end of it. As I wrote before, NO SYMPTOMS whatsoever. Shifted fine right up until it failed. After I had it rebuilt, it failed 40k later, and that was with a new pump as well.

No one is saying they are a mystery, I understand how they work. I might not know the intricacies, but I understand the basics.

Manuals will always be superior in durability and more cost efficient than an automatic. A typical rebuild in my area for an automatic is $2500. A clutch job is $800 at most, and a manual transmission rebuild is about $600. With both of those you are still way under an automatic rebuild. I have a friend with a mid 80s Toyota Corolla, with the ORIGINAL manual transmission, not rebuilt. He's done the clutch once since he's owned it, and it's been done twice before that when his other family owned it. The thing shifts beautifully.

I personally think you're crazy for taking an auto over a manual, unless its something like a C6 or a Turbo 350. But we're talking overdrive transmissions here, and I'm sorry, but they all suck. They don't last long enough, even with maintenance (look at all the problems people have with the Ranger automatics, starting from the A4LD). Knowing how they work isn't going to make a difference when the clutches go and you're then due for some major spending.

 

[cocoasranger]

I tried to flush my A4LD recently..........Right down the toilet, but it wouldn't fit through the trap. Had to settle for dumping it at the scrap yard. It must not have had true grit.

 

[rickcdewitt]

from what i've heard,a high pressure flush can dislodge crud and seals,shortening the tranny life.but if you get two buckets-one empty and one with new tranny fluid and put your tranny cooler lines in them and run the motor until the fluid coming out of the cooler line is clean,then i don't think you'll kill an old tranny.

 

[RobbieD]

I tried to flush my A4LD recently..........Right down the toilet, but it wouldn't fit through the trap. Had to settle for dumping it at the scrap yard. It must not have had true grit.

Haha; pretty good. They do make a neat mail box, though.

Maybe we need a thread on "useful" applications for the A4LD.

 

[4x4RangerGuy]

Haha; pretty good. They do make a neat mail box, though.

Maybe we need a thread on "useful" applications for the A4LD.

I think there was a thread a while back on that exact topic...

To be honest, I won't ever own a vehicle with an automatic ever again if I can help it.

 

[michowski]

you shouldnt change your oil in the crank either. It comes with special additives from the factory that give it a 200,000 mile life minimum. Proper way to clean it is put the oil through a strainer and put it right back in.

Seriously dude, I would have the trans flushed. Everyday I see so many people neglecting there transmissions and not changing fluids and just what should be normal maitence and then wonder why things break and dont work properly.

 

[Ranger5.0]

michowski- Ive heard of that oil, i cant aford it tho, and straining it gets messy hahahahaha Oh, and btw, I have actualy seen many automotice torque converters with drain plugs. Guess once you work on enough krap you see stuff like that. SO, now we are saying the charge pump failed, yet it still shifted fine. Well that cant be true as that pump supplys the oil to either apply the break band or clutch packs depending on which gear it is in. so if the pump was starving for oil due to that clog you speak of, then, it would have a hard time building suficent presure in the servo or in the clutch apply piston. the symptoms of this would be, lazy shifting, sliping clutchs trany runing at abnormaly high temp. Also, when working with the "therory" that grit in the oil is good, how do you think the pump would like all this "grit" being pumped through it. Now, lets think about this, sandblaster spray "grit" at high pressure to strip what ever it is we need striped, note, it doesnt work well on girls. Now, lets move to the trany, we take the grit, it comes into the pump at low pressure, and leaves the pump at a max of i THINK 125psi. i could be wrong on the pressure, i will have to check my notes. Anyways, this oil and grit is not blasting out of the pump, the grit will obviously be coming into contact with important stuff in the trany. Stuff like shift valves, grit in there will cause a lot of wear, and considering they are a laped fit, any amount of wear will cause them to leak. Now, solinoid operated shift valves, they use electromagnatisem to control oil flow, is this grit is magnetic, then its going to collect around these valves, causing them to be "gumed up" or jam open, or closed. now, some of this oil is routed to the apply pistons, do you thing the rubber orings in there like having small particals rubing against them? no, thats how o rings die...dead o rings mean less then adaquit clutch apply pressures, which leads to clutch slipage, which causes MORE GRIT. Now, the cycle repeats its self. Saying the grint in a trany is good is like saying the small particals of metal caused from normal wear in the engine is good, and to not change the engine oil. but most ppl are more educated when it comes to engines, they know that if you dont regulary get that grit out, it will imbed in the bearings, and over time, start scoring rotating parts. think about it. stop going by what that guy said that day when you were at that shop. I dont care if anyone hear flush's tranys or changes there oil. Infact, the less people take care of there stuff, the more work there is for me.

 

[michowski]

ranger i was being sarcastic in my first few sentances lol. And straining it is not messy at all. Just put your pan under the oil tank, but a strainer over the drain plug, and while its draining into the pan its also being filtered. When its done being drained just dump whats in the pan back into the motor. AGAIN, im being sarcastic lol. Dont actually do that.