Any new firearm purchases?

[Gunfighter97]

Recent history shows us that it's only around 4% of people will obey their masters when it comes to things like that.. both NY and CT wanted folks to either give up or at the very least register their hi-cap magazines a handful of years ago and yeah.. their numbers showed that very very few people were willing to comply (roughly 4%)

Sometimes the news offers up stories that fill you with hope like that one.. not often though.


That being said.. requires balls to take something you ain't supposed to have out in public. Big dumb balls.

A lot of people see the current attitude the courts have taken in the last several years from Cali's "freedom week" to the Bruen decision from SCOTUS. Its making people brave. . . However you want to read brave. . . Anyway, we have the most pro 2A courts we've ever had right now and several (actual) gun rights giants willing to weild possession charges like a cudgel to set federal legal president. A lot of people with illegal stuff see getting charged with possession as a case that GOA and the like will throw weight behind amd a chance to be a hero. And they're not wrong. Theres a case right now, forget the details, but basically the guy had two or three illegal MGs amd the intent to get caught; now he's got the full backing of GOA in a case to eliminate the Huges amendment to FOPA (the 1986 cut off of the MG registry) and a myriad of other cases to eliminate the NFA and GCA as well.

 

[Shran]

All we need is a few wins in court to set a lot of precedents and we may never have an opportunity to do that like we do now. If y'all care and can afford it, donating to a few organizations is the best way. Court cases cost money, every little bit helps - these are the ones I donate to, I believe these actually make a difference:

National Association for Gun Rights
2nd Amendment Foundation
Gun Owners of America
Firearms Policy Coalition

Used to be an NRA member, quite frankly they can suck a fat one. You might as well be handing your credit card to their director so he can buy a new suit. They will not get another penny from me until they can show the world that they do meaningful things.

 

[Uncle Gump]

To be honest... I'm sure many people had these now banned weapons prior to the ban being placed on us.

Hell... I never wanted any of what's being banned until they decided I couldn't have one.

I still could care less about owning a "black" rifle... but i truly want a Ruger mini 14. They've banned it.

 

[Shran]

To be honest... I'm sure many people had these now banned weapons prior to the ban being placed on us.

Hell... I never wanted any of what's being banned until they decided I couldn't have one.

I still could care less about owning a "black" rifle... but i truly want a Ruger mini 14. They've banned it.

That's where I'm at too. All I had for many years was a beater 12 gauge shotgun and a 22. The Obama years in particular were a real wake up - I guess I didn't really feel threatened by being limited to Fudd guns until around that time.

Fortunately in South Dakota we are pretty safe as far as bans go but you never know, and some action at the federal level is really needed.

 

[RobbieD]

The VR 80 and 82s are great. Well designed gun. Pros will wear them out but for 90% of people out there, they run good as long as they're broken in properly. Of the customers I talked to that had them, they all reported very reliable performance after the first 250-350 shells. The hotter the loads they ran, the shorter the breakin was.

That was my experience, too.

Both of these recent acquisitions are Turkish manufacture, which some people look down on. But both of mine are solid, well made, and have functioned perfectly. The walnut wood and the bluing on the pump are both beautiful. And the Pup is also a good little gun too.

On the other hand, some of the old good American brands which have been bought out by huge business conglomerates have turned into crap, for the making of maximum profits. Sad.

There was cheaper stuff out there, but I'm very happy with my choices. There used to be such a thing as "pride in ownership"; I still like having it.

 

[Shran]

Both of these recent acquisitions are Turkish manufacture, which some people look down on.

I think they can make an OK pump or single shot but I'm on the fence with semi autos. I bought a Hatfield semi auto 410 a while back and it was a horrendous piece of crap, so bad that I had to send it in and get a refund. It wasn't just that particular gun...it was a really bad design... the bolt beats against the back of the receiver, metal on metal, there is no buffer or anything and the machining overall was pretty bad.

I've seen and shot a few ATI over/unders and kinda feel the same way about those. They spent a lot of time on fancy engraving but the choke tubes are really sloppy and poorly machined...for example. A $5-700 shotgun should have much more attention to detail put into it.

I think my FIL has a Turk pump shotgun of some sort and he loves it. That one is pretty decent from what I have seen.

 

[Gunfighter97]

You have to look at import marks. ATI, Rock Island, doesn't matter whose name its sold under. They didnt make it. There are several really good makers and a handfull of sub China level makers. Silah Makina, Istanbul Silah, Francolin Arms, Armsan, Hatsan, Sarsilmaz, and Canik all spring to mind as some of the better makes. Among their countries best, whats still lacking is their metal quality on a metallurgical level. Its improved significantly over the years though. They like guns, and the better makes take pride in their stuff.
Oh! And Girsan. The MC312 was universally well liked by the customers I served for both hunting and tactical configurations.

 

[RobbieD]

I think they can make an OK pump or single shot but I'm on the fence with semi autos. I bought a Hatfield semi auto 410 a while back and it was a horrendous piece of crap, so bad that I had to send it in and get a refund. It wasn't just that particular gun...it was a really bad design... the bolt beats against the back of the receiver, metal on metal, there is no buffer or anything and the machining overall was pretty bad.

I've seen and shot a few ATI over/unders and kinda feel the same way about those. They spent a lot of time on fancy engraving but the choke tubes are really sloppy and poorly machined...for example. A $5-700 shotgun should have much more attention to detail put into it.

I think my FIL has a Turk pump shotgun of some sort and he loves it. That one is pretty decent from what I have seen.

I hear you, and understand. I had reservations myself, but I beat up the net researching reviews and forums chatter, and the good far outweighed the bad on the RIA VR series shotguns.

And it wasn't exactly cheap; I see AR style 12GAs going for about a third of the cost of the VR-82. But I do have to wonder about the quality and long-term reliability of those "fine firearms".

Since I was dead set on a 20GA box mag-fed auto, choices were limited so I rolled the dice, and have no regrets whatsoever.

 

[Gunfighter97]

I hear you, and understand. I had reservations myself, but I beat up the net researching reviews and forums chatter, and the good far outweighed the bad on the RIA VR series shotguns.

And it wasn't exactly cheap; I see AR style 12GAs going for about a third of the cost of the VR-82. But I do have to wonder about the quality and long-term reliability of those "fine firearms".

Since I was dead set on a 20GA box mag-fed auto, choices were limited so I rolled the dice, and have no regrets whatsoever.

I have one regret for the VRs, that I didnt buy one on employee price when I had the chance.

 

[Sharky]

anyone looking for an inexpensive semi auto shotgun should pick up a Impala Plus. 12 gauge only but great reliability , I had 1 & let it go to a friends son after shooting it a lot. my other friend & his son each have 1 , no issues with them.

Impala Plus Shotgun - Impala Plus Shotguns

FIND A DEALER Where quality meets everyday performance. Impala Plus line of shotguns use a combination of time-honored craftsmanship and state-of-the-art CNC machining technology. Impala Plus line provides sportsmen with a level of handling, performance, durability, and features usually found...

impalaplusshotguns.com

 

[RobbieD]

You have to look at import marks. ATI, Rock Island, doesn't matter whose name its sold under. They didnt make it.

Very true, to an extent.

But the importer does have a "due diligence" aspect. The factories, at whatever competency level and where ever they may be, will simply build what the customer wants.

As an example, Importer A says "This is what I want, and I want it as cheap as possible".

Importer B says "Here are our specifications; what is the price that you can build this for us?".

Importer A gets the stuff in as quickly as they can and simply blows it out. They look to cut corners at every stage, and their only real concern is that the product will make it through the warranty period.

Importer B negotiates more, requires samples, and tests the product themselves for function and fit as well as having component things tested, like metal composition and strength. This method costs more in time and money. And this type of importer will typically have their own specifications which call for better-than-minimum materials. They usually have a better warranty, too.

Buying an Importer A product gets you a cheap price. On the other hand, you'll pay more from an Importer B product, but you'll get much more value for your money, because it will be a better product. And it will also be very competitively priced within the market, due to the simple reality that off-shore manufacturing is less expensive.

I saw this first hand years ago, with electronics manufacturing in Asian factories. Off-shore manufacturing is not necessarily a bad thing, but only if it is done right.

 

[Shran]

Stoeger is a really good example of who knows who made it. I have several over/under and SxS shotguns made by Stoeger and I love love love love love them. Inexpensive and they just work great. I can name many other examples who are happy...my buddy used those exclusively for pro level skeet shooting, he feels the same way. Those are made in Brazil.

Their semi autos however are made in Turkey and I don't know by who. They look like quality shotguns but I hear (cannot confirm personally) that they are pretty cheap, not real reliable and picky about ammo. I'm not going to confirm that, I picked up a nice old Remington Automaster last year so my semi auto itch is scratched.

Have to pay close attention to what you're getting these days.

 

[Gunfighter97]

Very true, to an extent.

But the importer does have a "due diligence" aspect. The factories, at whatever competency level and where ever they may be, will simply build what the customer wants.

As an example, Importer A says "This is what I want, and I want it as cheap as possible".

Importer B says "Here are our specifications; what is the price that you can build this for us?".

Importer A gets the stuff in as quickly as they can and simply blows it out. They look to cut corners at every stage, and their only real concern is that the product will make it through the warranty period.

Importer B negotiates more, requires samples, and tests the product themselves for function and fit as well as having component things tested, like metal composition and strength. This method costs more in time and money. And this type of importer will typically have their own specifications which call for better-than-minimum materials. They usually have a better warranty, too.

Buying an Importer A product gets you a cheap price. On the other hand, you'll pay more from an Importer B product, but you'll get much more value for your money, because it will be a better product. And it will also be very competitively priced within the market, due to the simple reality that off-shore manufacturing is less expensive.

I saw this first hand years ago, with electronics manufacturing in Asian factories. Off-shore manufacturing is not necessarily a bad thing, but only if it is done right.

This is all true, however what I said stands. The Turkish factories that have bad rep have bad rep for a reason. The other makes I listed, all seem to do very well. Black Aces Tactical was one importer that bought several different models from several different factories. All very cheap guns with wildly varying results.
Keep in mind also that in Turkey, shotguns aren't considered firearms. 99% of those imports were on their own open market first. Its also why they come up with so many wild shotgun designs.