95 2.3L manual trans clutch not disengaging

[sciontc518]

hey guys first time poster, i recently bought a 95 2.3 4 cylinder 5 speed, im having problems with the clutch not disengaging, i have replaced the master cylinder the clutch line and slave cylinder, clutch was working fine for a while then the slave cylinder decided to break, after replacing the slave cylinder the second time i cant get the clutch to disengage, i have run about 10 reservoirs worth of fluid through the system pulled the master cylinder bench bled it, hardly any air in the system, the clutch pedal is firm, any help is much appreciated

 

[AllanD]

Are you sure it isn't a more mechanical problem like a bad pilot bearing?

AD

 

[sciontc518]

is there any way to tell if its bad other than pulling the tranny again?

 

[RonD]

Welcome to TRS

"Hardly any air"

No air in the system would be the correct thing

How did new slave break?
Did it start leaking?

Did you replace the Pressure plate?
Perhaps thats the problem

Rangers use a self adjusting pressure plate, they can not be reused unless reset by using a hydraulic press.
If you just put in a new clutch disc it won't disengage even with no air in system.

 

[tomw]

RonD:Rangers use a self adjusting pressure plate, they can not be reused unless reset by using a hydraulic press.

Can you explain, or point to a web thing some'ere? Brand new concept, to me...
tom

 

[RonD]

RonD:Rangers use a self adjusting pressure plate, they can not be reused unless reset by using a hydraulic press.

Can you explain, or point to a web thing some'ere? Brand new concept, to me...
tom

When clutch slave was on the outside of the bell housing it used a pivot and fork to move the throw out bearing against pressure plate to release pressure on the clutch disc.
And there would be an adjustment on the slave push rod that need to be changed as clutch disc wore down.

When the slave is internal there can be no external adjustment as clutch disc wears down.
Also just for customer convenience, an automatic adjustment is better even with external slave.

If you google: clutch pressure plate, and then clutch self adjusting pressure plate

You will see that self adjusting will have 3 springs(some are 2 or 4 spring), horizontal, around the center hole.
When the springs are compressed the self adjuster is reset or new, ready for a new thicker clutch disc.
The plate is farther away from flywheel when installed.
As the clutch disc wears down, gets thinner, the plate moves closer and closer to flywheel, to hold clutch disc tight against flywheel, those 3 springs keep it from moving back.
The springs are not that strong, they are just place keepers.

If you were to replace a thin clutch disc with a new thicker one then self adjusting plate wouldn't move back enough when slave pushed on pressure plate, so clutch wouldn't fully disengage, it would rub.

You can reset them but it takes alot of pressure to do so, most just get a new self adjusting pressure plate.
Google: reset self adjusting pressure plate
LUK reset seen here: http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f111/how-reset-oem-sac-ii-luk-clutch-170556/

And you can use a regular pressure plate in a Ranger, but.........when new it will barely disengage, pedal will but right at the floor, and this will wear the clutch disc faster, until there is enough clearance.
After a month or so it will be better, then be fine until clutch disc gets to thin, you will notice that clutch is disengaging higher and higher on the pedal over the life of the clutch disc.
With self adjusting the disengage/engage should stay the same through out the life of the disc.
At end of life it will start slipping with clutch pedal all the way up, same as self adjusting would.

The self adjusting should get more miles out of a clutch disc, just like the external adjusters did.

 

[tomw]

I realize that the clutch fingers will slowly change their 'engaged' position as the clutch friction wears, moving slowly closer and closer to the throwout bearing. This new-fangled fancy stuff has been invented since the last clutch I did. Well, supervised. Turbo Mustang SVO. Brother's friend tried the $99 clutch... and it slipped badly. He finally went for the $213 clutch, after doing the transmission R&R a second time... and it worked. It had no adjustment on the pressure plate. That was 20+ years ago. So, my knowledge that the hydraulic slave cylinder/TO bearing combination performed the 'automatic' adjustment needs updating. But not on my truck, I think.
Interesting. When replacing a clutch in the past, the check before was WHERE did the clutch start to grab. The closer the 'grab' was to the top of the pedal travel, the more wear there was, and the less clutch friction material was left. A new clutch would engage close to the floor. This must be some mechanism to keep the 'engage' position more constant, or the slave/TO bearing design has changed where the piston can no longer accommodate the increased finger height. I guess.
The last of the manual transmission full-size Fords had a clutch pedal that was a couple inches or so higher than the brake pedal, I assume to accommodate the 'leverage' needed to make depressing the pedal easy. The moving finger pivot changes the internal leverage without having change in the pedal height. The actual throw or movement of the pressure plate 'plate' is likely minimized, and the automatic adjuster keeps the spring loaded plate close throughout the life of the clutch. Again, even more interesting.

tom