83 Ranger Idling at 20 BTDC

[Jason_1984]

Hey thanks for the help.... I did not see anything that looks like that....I am going to double check and see what I can come up with... I will keep you posted.... I have heard the truck run well in the past with the timing as it is now(just recently got a timing light to know reading 20*) the idle problem was sporadic at first and eventually got worse) .... its almost like its a sensor or the computer itself going bad... maybe the control mixture solenoid on the carb is going, perhaps a coolant temp sensor sending bad reading (maybe I'm off completely).... I will check for the SPOUT again tomorrow and see what I can come up. Ill keep you posted on the results.... Thanks again.

 

[Big Jim M]

once more

Hey thanks for the help.... I did not see anything that looks like that....I am going to double check and see what I can come up with... I will keep you posted.... I have heard the truck run well in the past with the timing as it is now(just recently got a timing light to know reading 20*) the idle problem was sporadic at first and eventually got worse) .... its almost like its a sensor or the computer itself going bad... maybe the control mixture solenoid on the carb is going, perhaps a coolant temp sensor sending bad reading (maybe I'm off completely).... I will check for the SPOUT again tomorrow and see what I can come up. Ill keep you posted on the results.... Thanks again.

Ok Jason
A bit of education here. The computer depends on the timing being set on the degrees of the setting with the spout OUT!
Now that you have twisted the dist you have changed the setting the computer depends on.
The VERY FIRST THING for you to do is to FIND the spout and take it out and then set the timing PROPERLY.
ONLY then can you actually know there might be something ELSE wrong.
JESUS it is THERE under the hood! It's not like you have to walk down the block looking for that wire!
FIND the damn thing and set the timing to the correct number.
Big Jim

 

[Jason_1984]

If you're going to help I appreciate it. But please don't be rude. Leave Jesus out of it next time partner. I realize it's under the hood but it's not iimmediately visible. I'm far from an idiot. I'm trying my best... just because it should be in a certain spot doesn't mean it will be...it's an 83 and a lot of hands have touched it besides mine..... I'll look again tonight for the spout. I appreciate the help.

 

[AndyB.]

If you could post a picture of the distributor, that would help. It looks like the 2.0 did have a vacuum advance distributor. It's possible there isn't a spout connector.

 

[Jason_1984]

it does have vacuum advance. I have disconnected the line and plugged it....forgive me but if I understand correctly it is one or the other you cant have SPOUT and vacuum advance?? I have checked the wiring diagram but I am having problems finding SPOUT there too.

 

[Jason_1984]

I found a plug similar to the one in the picture above. It does not have the black plug in it. I am not sure if its the right plug, in theory if that was the SPOUT then I should be able to set the timing at 6* right? I studied the wiring diagram today and came up with some potential components that could throw off the computer. No particular order. (I think my voltmeter and I are going to become good friends). If anybody has any knowledge on these please chime in. Location, what they look like, symptoms when faulty.

Barometric Pressure Sensor
Fuel control Solenoid- I believe this is attached to the carb. I have benched tested and it clicks when power applied. I have not tested the wires that lead to it.
Idle fuel Solenoid-Traced wire from fuse box to Carb. - Metal Cylinder attached to the carb with 1 wire and a vacuum hose. Not sure how to troubleshoot one yet but seems operational on visual inspection.
Coolant Temp Sensor - Found this on block already but haven't tested.
Idle Speed control/Idle speed control motor
vacuum switches

 

[Jason_1984]

I think I'm going to go through my curb idle adjustment procedure with that solenoid and see if anything changes. Ill keep you posted

 

[Jason_1984]

Well I got her to idle a little better. Still not where I would like it to be. Still shutters and vibrates (no pattern) but not nearly as bad as it was. I have no idea how to check the base idle on this vehicle. Vacuum advance disconnected and still nowhere near 6 degrees. Anybody have any input on rough idle or how to get this thing to read 6* BTDC please let me know.

 

[Big Jim M]

What???

Well I got her to idle a little better. Still not where I would like it to be. Still shutters and vibrates (no pattern) but not nearly as bad as it was. I have no idea how to check the base idle on this vehicle. Vacuum advance disconnected and still nowhere near 6 degrees. Anybody have any input on rough idle or how to get this thing to read 6* BTDC please let me know.

How many times do we have to tell ya? You MUST disconnect the spout!
What we have here is a 4 foot by 4 foot area with a SPOUT in it! Now the thing we have to do is the FIND it! We don't adjust anything until we find he spout! Why are you at the computer? Getcha ass out there and find the spout.
Now when the spout is disconnected the timing will be at the idle it is presently adjusted to. Adjust it to the 6* and put the spout back in there. Now the computer is finding what it thinks the idle timing should be. Perhaps it is 20* but whatever it is leave it alone the computer is smarter than all of us.
If you are reading this and haven't pulled the spout plug out yet then you are cheating yourself.
Big Jim

 

[Jason_1984]

I am unable to locate any SPOUT connector or anything that looks like it for that matter.(under the hood in the Haynes manual for setting timing or on the wiring diagram) I dug through that engine all this weekend and was unable to find anything that looks like the picture that was sent of the SPOUT connector. I can find the vacuum advance though. Can you have a SPOUT and vacuum advance or is it one or the other??

 

[huh?]

http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81179

besides setting ignition timing, the thread this link should take you to also discusses vacuum leaks and carb adjustment. these may be relevant to your situation since you just replaced the head gasket.

 

[Jason_1984]

Hey thanks. I appreciate the help. By the article it sounds like there is either one or the other (spout or vacuum advance). Unfortunately even with the vacuum advance unplugged from dizzy and line plugged I still cannot get it anywhere near 6*. Could it possibly be my centrifugal advance inside the distributor? The distributor was replaced within the last year. Is there a way to perform a test on the centrifugal advance? Most vacuum lines on top of the engine have been replaced and the last time I checked my vacuum at the manifold was a bit high.

 

[94RoadkillRanger]

Once I rebuilt a Plymouth engine and lined up the timing marks to put the belt on. However, the marks were only for the belt, not the distributor. It was 180 degrees off and ran terrible.

 

[Big Jim M]

Ok

Hey thanks. I appreciate the help. By the article it sounds like there is either one or the other (spout or vacuum advance). Unfortunately even with the vacuum advance unplugged from dizzy and line plugged I still cannot get it anywhere near 6*. Could it possibly be my centrifugal advance inside the distributor? The distributor was replaced within the last year. Is there a way to perform a test on the centrifugal advance? Most vacuum lines on top of the engine have been replaced and the last time I checked my vacuum at the manifold was a bit high.

First questi0n is did you unplug the plug you found to see if it changed the timing at idle? If not then do it to see if it is a spout.

Then there is the dist swap. If the vehicle came with the spout and computer controlled dist then the dist you have with the vac advance and cent advance will not work....ever!

Then there is the constant 20* timing you seem to have. You twist the dist and the advance stays the same... That indicates to me you have the wrong dist in there. I betcha you do have a spout and someone installed the wrong dist.
So the first thing to do is to pull that plug and see if the timing changes if YES then you will have to get the proper dist.

There is a possibility the present dist will work with the spout OUT! But that is a small possibility.

Big Jim

 

[Jason_1984]

The plug I found did not have a shorting bar in it but it was the only thing that even looked close to a SPOUT. In theory if it was the spout the timing should be down closer to 6* since the shorting bar isn't in there right? The new distributor looks exactly like the one I removed. Also checked with a couple parts stores for my make and model and all call for a vacuum advance distributor. There is no mention of a SPOUT in the Haynes manual under the timing instructions for my make and model. And I am unable to locate it on the wiring diagram for my make and model. Also when I twist the distributor the timing does in fact change. it goes in between 20*-35* before it starts to die. (assuming the distributor contacts get too far from rotor) let me know your thoughts. just a reminder this is a 83 Ford ranger 2.3 carbureted.