68 F-100 4x4 Drivetrain decisions...

[JoshT]

relatively easy swap into your truck to keep it on the road while you build your engine...

Not a concern. Engine is just the portion of the work I'm asking about. Truck is going down to the frame, so it won't be driving anyway.

Probably won't start before New Years. Considering body work and summer heat, I doubt it'll be back together in a year. Will probably be collecting some bits in the interim. Parts for things that I am already decided on, like chassis harness ,lift kit, transmission and transfer case, etc.

If I'm building the FE it can be in work and ready to go back in when the truck goes back together.

If I'm 7.3 swapping, it can be done then or later. I'll buy a mock block to figure out positioning and build mounts while the truck is torn down, then swap once I have the package ready to install.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Build the FE. That's my vote. I learned to drive in a 360 powered '73 F250 and drove my dad's 390 powered '76 for a while... I love those engines.

Just as an option, keep your eyes open for an old grain truck from that era. Some of them would have had FT engines which should be a relatively easy swap into your truck to keep it on the road while you build your engine... and they are almost always CHEAP... nobody wants old grain trucks anymore up here and I've seen a couple sell recently for under $2000 in running condition, and one even had a recently rebuilt engine with paperwork. They usually haven't been whooped on either like most pickups and larger stuff (dump trucks, etc.)

Plot twist, nobody ever cared about grain trucks.

Usually they are an unmaintained hacked together mess.

Kinda like dropping a combine motor in a tractor. Sounds awesome until you start thinking about it.

 

[Shran]

Plot twist, nobody ever cared about grain trucks.

Usually they are an unmaintained hacked together mess.

Kinda like dropping a combine motor in a tractor. Sounds awesome until you start thinking about it.

But if it runs good and the price is right...

They weigh enough that if you spent say, $800, on one that got parked 20 years ago when the brakes went out but fires right up, there's at least a few hundred bucks in scrap there plus some part out value. If a guy takes his time you could come out money ahead on the deal.

I don't see them as being much different than old motorhome donors, those things can be pure gold for drivetrain donor parts. The empty husk is a LOT harder to get rid of than a grain truck though.

 

[broncc]

If we ignore that what would best suit you is getting a 351 manual truck and swapping it over, I think the best bet is just doing a top end job on the FE.

I totally understand not wanting a certain engine because you don't vibe with it, but what you should consider is time and money vs seat time. I'm at this point with my Capri right now where I am choosing between stroker build or more mild top end rebuild. I would really think about the cost benefit between just throwing trickflow heads and a cam on vs tripling the cost of be build for a third more power. Depending on how you build it, are you going to put the miles on it if it needs premium gas? Will you offroad it if the cam doesn't make vacuum at idle?

I'd avoid the zilla just because it doesn't bolt in like other options will. I don't know much about them, either. Does Ford provide ECU/harness for them too?

You need to ask yourself how many months and years this car can be on jacks. How long are you willing to wait? How much time will you have left to enjoy it after? This post is maybe more introspective than prescriptive so I'm sorry for being a downer. I think its worth considering. That or the Ford psychosis is setting in and I am going to lose it soon.

 

[JoshT]

If we ignore that what would best suit you is getting a 351 manual truck and swapping it over, I think the best bet is just doing a top end job on the FE.

I totally understand not wanting a certain engine because you don't vibe with it, but what you should consider is time and money vs seat time. I'm at this point with my Capri right now where I am choosing between stroker build or more mild top end rebuild. I would really think about the cost benefit between just throwing trickflow heads and a cam on vs tripling the cost of be build for a third more power. Depending on how you build it, are you going to put the miles on it if it needs premium gas? Will you offroad it if the cam doesn't make vacuum at idle?

I'd avoid the zilla just because it doesn't bolt in like other options will. I don't know much about them, either. Does Ford provide ECU/harness for them too?

You need to ask yourself how many months and years this car can be on jacks. How long are you willing to wait? How much time will you have left to enjoy it after? This post is maybe more introspective than prescriptive so I'm sorry for being a downer. I think its worth considering. That or the Ford psychosis is setting in and I am going to lose it soon.

Ignore what? That I specifically said it'll only be a FE or Godzilla? Not doing a 351 and not buying a donor for anything. Don't need or want to buy a whole vehicle to strip down and dispose of.

Just throwing a heads and cam on it vs the cost of a full build. Did I forget to say that this bottom end is not what I want and very likely has over 300k miles on it? Even if the actual mileage is unknown it is slap worn out and will require a complete rebuild. When dad parked it in 2006 it was doing good to register oil pressure at idle on a real oil pressure gauge. Only reason that it registers decent now is because I installed a high volume oil pump and run 20w-50. Bottom end is getting rebuilt regardless. At minimum it would end up a 390 which requires a full rotating assembly. A 390 rotating assembly costs just as much as going bigger like a 410 or 428, same abount of machine work as well. I'll run what ever fuel the engine build requires. Premium gas is no worse per gallon than the diesel I've been putting in the F-250.

What about restomodding the truck makes you think it will be an offoader? Yes, I'm going to install a 4" lift kit, but it's always had a 3" body lift and looks right that way. I'm just swapping BL for SL. Yes, it'll be driven on dirt roads, but not offroading the likes of what you guys run. I've got an ATV for that type of stuff. Also if I don't get parts for lowering it more soon (or I'm not happy with the results), the '99 Ranger V8 swap may end up with a 4wd transfer case, lift kit and 33s. If I wanted to come play off road, it would be the toy of choice.

With the exception of an inline 6, no other options just bolt in. Any other engine is going to require custom mounts, those were the only factory engine options in these trucks. For a SBF I'd have to track down a pair of late 70s frame towers, or spend on custom engine mounts. For the Zilla or anything else I'd have to do custom engine mounts. Fortunately companies sell conversion mount kits with the engine side already done, so it's just a matter of positioning the tngine and using the supplied bits to finish out the frame side. I may have even found a bolt in engine mount set for the Zilla, just have to verify that it fits the 67-72 F-100 4x4 since it is sold for the 73-79 F-100 4x4. I think that the main frame differences were wheelbase length and different shock mounting.

Ford sells the Godzilla as a crate motor. They also sell control packs (aka the EFI system) designed for running a Godzilla as standalone. Just a few wires to hook up and make it run. Probably even easier than wiring up a 5.0 swap in a Ranger. There are also a few companies, including Holley, that make aftermarket ECUs that can run them.

As the truck sits with it's work out drivetrain I can't really enjoy it anyway. It can be on jacks as long as it needs to be, but I don't see it taking more than a year, maybe two. It'll largely depend on how much trouble I have waiting with body work end of things. Disassembly and assembly won't be difficult, just got to work around the weather. Having a shop to work in will help things along greatly, but not having AC will make a few months of the year prety rough to work in. Not that it matters, I wasn't driving the truck during those months anyway due in large part to no A/C the truck. That's going to change during the course of the build.

Having just turned 40 and a grandmother that is about to turn 92 and still going strong, hopefully over half my life left to enjoy it when I get done. Dad got taken at 71, but he also had a few very hard knocks that seriously drug him down. Starting with a plane crash that caused mobility issues, further mobility issues stemming from those, developing a sedentary lifestyle as a result, stroke, cancer, more strokes, all things that built upon one another. I honestly feel that if he hadn't been in that crash, he'd have stayed a lot fitter and would likely rival his mother in lifespan. Besides, if I worried about how much time I'll have left, I'd never do anything.

 

[Rick W]

Ignore what? That I specifically said it'll only be a FE or Godzilla? Not doing a 351 and not buying a donor for anything. Don't need or want to buy a whole vehicle to strip down and dispose of.

Just throwing a heads and cam on it vs the cost of a full build. Did I forget to say that this bottom end is not what I want and very likely has over 300k miles on it? Even if the actual mileage is unknown it is slap worn out and will require a complete rebuild. When dad parked it in 2006 it was doing good to register oil pressure at idle on a real oil pressure gauge. Only reason that it registers decent now is because I installed a high volume oil pump and run 20w-50. Bottom end is getting rebuilt regardless. At minimum it would end up a 390 which requires a full rotating assembly. A 390 rotating assembly costs just as much as going bigger like a 410 or 428, same abount of machine work as well. I'll run what ever fuel the engine build requires. Premium gas is no worse per gallon than the diesel I've been putting in the F-250.

What about restomodding the truck makes you think it will be an offoader? Yes, I'm going to install a 4" lift kit, but it's always had a 3" body lift and looks right that way. I'm just swapping BL for SL. Yes, it'll be driven on dirt roads, but not offroading the likes of what you guys run. I've got an ATV for that type of stuff. Also if I don't get parts for lowering it more soon (or I'm not happy with the results), the '99 Ranger V8 swap may end up with a 4wd transfer case, lift kit and 33s. If I wanted to come play off road, it would be the toy of choice.

With the exception of an inline 6, no other options just bolt in. Any other engine is going to require custom mounts, those were the only factory engine options in these trucks. For a SBF I'd have to track down a pair of late 70s frame towers, or spend on custom engine mounts. For the Zilla or anything else I'd have to do custom engine mounts. Fortunately companies sell conversion mount kits with the engine side already done, so it's just a matter of positioning the tngine and using the supplied bits to finish out the frame side. I may have even found a bolt in engine mount set for the Zilla, just have to verify that it fits the 67-72 F-100 4x4 since it is sold for the 73-79 F-100 4x4. I think that the main frame differences were wheelbase length and different shock mounting.

Ford sells the Godzilla as a crate motor. They also sell control packs (aka the EFI system) designed for running a Godzilla as standalone. Just a few wires to hook up and make it run. Probably even easier than wiring up a 5.0 swap in a Ranger. There are also a few companies, including Holley, that make aftermarket ECUs that can run them.

As the truck sits with it's work out drivetrain I can't really enjoy it anyway. It can be on jacks as long as it needs to be, but I don't see it taking more than a year, maybe two. It'll largely depend on how much trouble I have waiting with body work end of things. Disassembly and assembly won't be difficult, just got to work around the weather. Having a shop to work in will help things along greatly, but not having AC will make a few months of the year prety rough to work in. Not that it matters, I wasn't driving the truck during those months anyway due in large part to no A/C the truck. That's going to change during the course of the build.

Having just turned 40 and a grandmother that is about to turn 92 and still going strong, hopefully over half my life left to enjoy it when I get done. Dad got taken at 71, but he also had a few very hard knocks that seriously drug him down. Starting with a plane crash that caused mobility issues, further mobility issues stemming from those, developing a sedentary lifestyle as a result, stroke, cancer, more strokes, all things that built upon one another. I honestly feel that if he hadn't been in that crash, he'd have stayed a lot fitter and would likely rival his mother in lifespan. Besides, if I worried about how much time I'll have left, I'd never do anything.

A/C for the shop

When I built the shed of miracles, it’s just 2 x 4 framed, plywood and foam board walls, and vinyl siding. no insulation, and It has the continuous vented soffit the whole length.

I scoured around the two HVAC supply houses near me, their scrap piles, and I found a near perfect 115 thousand BTU horizontal furnace. Free, but I had to buy about $40 in relays and whatever that whoever scrapped it had scavenged off it. I built the walls 9’8” so I could stay with two by fours and not go to two by sixes, and I hung that heater off the trusses so it’s out of the way. There’s a a lot of good equipment that ends up those scrap piles from an HVAC guy talking someone into a new system.

Finding a functioning AC system is probably a little more difficult, but even if you had to buy the outside unit new, you’re not talking a million bucks. I run mine four or five times a year when it’s really cold, and other than that, it sits dormant. But for those days when it’s really cold, it takes the edge for very little money in fuel cost.

With all the money you’re going to spen on your projects,it wouldn’t be but a few bucks to put something in so you could be comfortable.

Just a thought

 

[Mechrick]

What would be the transmission choice with the Godzilla? I'm blissfully ignorant on which transmission bellhousing pattern they run.

As a general rule, modern engines in vintage vehicles sours me. I would rather see vintage iron with modern fuel injection.

I can understand the drive to go with a specific engine, often for irrational reasons. For me, the reason I have a 351 Cleveland in the shed that will eventually end up in something, is I love the exhaust note of the iron-headed Clevelands with a rumpity cam. Nothing quite sounds like one.

 

[Shran]

Looks like they have a modular bellhousing pattern so there are a lot of options.

Whatever you choose, my advice is if you do a rebuild on what you have, time it so that you can drive it right away. I had a machine shop botch a rebuild on my 2.3 and it started knocking about 50 miles after I installed the engine. It was only a few days after so they covered it under warranty. Had I let it sit on an engine stand for a year or two while I worked on other projects, I would have been out of luck. Are the chances of that happening very high? Probably not, but it's always in the back of my mind now.

 

[JoshT]

A/C for the shop

When I built the shed of miracles, it’s just 2 x 4 framed, plywood and foam board walls, and vinyl siding. no insulation, and It has the continuous vented soffit the whole length.

I scoured around the two HVAC supply houses near me, their scrap piles, and I found a near perfect 115 thousand BTU horizontal furnace. Free, but I had to buy about $40 in relays and whatever that whoever scrapped it had scavenged off it. I built the walls 9’8” so I could stay with two by fours and not go to two by sixes, and I hung that heater off the trusses so it’s out of the way. There’s a a lot of good equipment that ends up those scrap piles from an HVAC guy talking someone into a new system.

Finding a functioning AC system is probably a little more difficult, but even if you had to buy the outside unit new, you’re not talking a million bucks. I run mine four or five times a year when it’s really cold, and other than that, it sits dormant. But for those days when it’s really cold, it takes the edge for very little money in fuel cost.

With all the money you’re going to spen on your projects,it wouldn’t be but a few bucks to put something in so you could be comfortable.

Just a thought

I think that the space is a fair bit bigger than your shed of miracles.Its a carport style barn. I want to say that central part is 18x30 with 12 foot walls. One side has an 8-10 foot wide lean-to that is open to the center. Other side has the same, but it is enclosed.

Before anything on the barn we've got to get AC reinstalled on their house, dad stuck to window units after the.central system went out several years ago. That was fine while he was there, but we need to get a new one installed for mom. He was already leaning in that direction, and probably would have installed one by next summer.

After that we'll look at shop improvements, but AC is low on the list. It was built over an existing 15x30 concrete pad, the rest is dirt. We'd be looking at pouring the rest for starters Apparently he had talked to someone about it and the price was stupid high. Sounds like he was talking to someone that hand mixes small forms, not that pours large areas by mixer truck, so it might not be as bad as he thought. Then at least some minimal insulation in the walls and ceiling to help with heat from sun. Dad installed thin insulation when he built the doors on the front, that's the side that faces the sun for most of the day. You can feel how much it cuts down heat transfer vs the uninsulated sides and roof. IIRC he bought enough to do most of the roof too, but never got around to installing it. I'd probably just look to finish that out on the outer facing walls and roof in the large section

Two or three months ago he installed a louvered exhaust fan in the gable of the end opposite the door, and that helped a lot too. While he was in the hospital I had to do some work on the car in there. First day I put the car in and it was over 120 in the barn. No thermometer, but the fan has a thermostat control. I turned it to the 120 setting and it never turned off. When I left that day I left it set for around 100IIRC. Next day I came in, the fan wasn't running and was noticable cooler inside (still hot but cooler). Turned to down to mid 80s I think, it kicked on for a little while, pulled the temp down and kicked off.

So if I'm planning to work in there I can set the gable fan and it'll keep the heat from getting manageable. A few pedestal/box fans to get air moving at ground level. Step into the house occasionally to cool off and rehydrate.

 

[JoshT]

What would be the transmission choice with the Godzilla? I'm blissfully ignorant on which transmission bellhousing pattern they run.

As a general rule, modern engines in vintage vehicles sours me. I would rather see vintage iron with modern fuel injection.

I can understand the drive to go with a specific engine, often for irrational reasons. For me, the reason I have a 351 Cleveland in the shed that will eventually end up in something, is I love the exhaust note of the iron-headed Clevelands with a rumpity cam. Nothing quite sounds like one.

As Shran said the Godzilla uses the modular bell housing pattern.

Pretty sure I said it previously, but the plan for either engine is a Triton ZF6. That would be the 6 speed manual used behind the 5.4 V8 and 6.8 V10 in the Super Duty trucks. Those were part of the modular family as well, or at least used the bell housing pattern.

Transmission will bolt up to the Godzilla directly, and to the FE with an adapter.

I've got a first gen Holley Sniper on the FE now. It works, but plenty of problems reported with those. Don't know if I'm fortunate, or just haven't driven it enough to be an issue yet. Investing the money into building the engine, I want something a little better, and preferably not throttle body injection. I'd be looking at 1500 to double that for a better system, plus some for professional tuning. That is on top of the projected engine build costs mentioned previously.

7.3 w/Ford control pack is ready to run out of the box, no tuning required except possibly turning off auto transmission controls. Control pack cost was included in the price I'm guestimating for the swap.

This is not a race vehicle, not even a high performance street truck. It's more of a lifted 4x4 cruiser. That lumpy/choppy cam sounds great in something that's about to haul ass, that ain't this. I'd rather have a milder cam that has just a little bit of lope with good idle and road manners. Most people think of a big inch stroker going all out on the track. A stroker with a mild cam can also make some good lower end torque which is great for a truck, especially combined with the right gearing and an OD transmission. Might be out of breath by 5500 RPM, but the truck would be too scary to drive at those speeds anyway.

EDIT: I said big inch stroker. Stock block in this truck is a 360. Even stock FE displacements of 390, 410, and 428 are technically strokers on this block. IMO 390 (6.4L) is pretty big inch compared to a 2.3, 2.8, 4.0, or even 5.0L. It's no 445 or 510, but still pretty big.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

Future proof... My vote 7.3

 

[Rick W]

I think that the space is a fair bit bigger than your shed of miracles.Its a carport style barn. I want to say that central part is 18x30 with 12 foot walls. One side has an 8-10 foot wide lean-to that is open to the center. Other side has the same, but it is enclosed.

Before anything on the barn we've got to get AC reinstalled on their house, dad stuck to window units after the.central system went out several years ago. That was fine while he was there, but we need to get a new one installed for mom. He was already leaning in that direction, and probably would have installed one by next summer.

After that we'll look at shop improvements, but AC is low on the list. It was built over an existing 15x30 concrete pad, the rest is dirt. We'd be looking at pouring the rest for starters Apparently he had talked to someone about it and the price was stupid high. Sounds like he was talking to someone that hand mixes small forms, not that pours large areas by mixer truck, so it might not be as bad as he thought. Then at least some minimal insulation in the walls and ceiling to help with heat from sun. Dad installed thin insulation when he built the doors on the front, that's the side that faces the sun for most of the day. You can feel how much it cuts down heat transfer vs the uninsulated sides and roof. IIRC he bought enough to do most of the roof too, but never got around to installing it. I'd probably just look to finish that out on the outer facing walls and roof in the large section

Two or three months ago he installed a louvered exhaust fan in the gable of the end opposite the door, and that helped a lot too. While he was in the hospital I had to do some work on the car in there. First day I put the car in and it was over 120 in the barn. No thermometer, but the fan has a thermostat control. I turned it to the 120 setting and it never turned off. When I left that day I left it set for around 100IIRC. Next day I came in, the fan wasn't running and was noticable cooler inside (still hot but cooler). Turned to down to mid 80s I think, it kicked on for a little while, pulled the temp down and kicked off.

So if I'm planning to work in there I can set the gable fan and it'll keep the heat from getting manageable. A few pedestal/box fans to get air moving at ground level. Step into the house occasionally to cool off and rehydrate.

Understood. Shed of miracles is 20x45 over a concrete pad. 9’8” inside at the wall, with about a 6 foot peak to the top of the W trusses I have two of the mushroom roof looking exhaust fans set at about 90. One is dead right now, project for the fall.

For a few years, I was a regular at Goodwill, and I bought every breeze box, oscillating, etc. fan I could get my hands on. They were usually $5.00. I must have 10 or 15 of them. This time of year, even if I’m working in the driveway, I set one up blowing on me.

I just picked up a residential 110 V squirrel cage blower from a furnace. The housing and the motor is OK, but the squirrel cage got damaged and it’s out of balance. Those things move a ton of air for little money. I’m thinking if I mounted it up high, it will never be in my way, and it would probably blow a good stream of air, the length of the garage.

I had a ceiling fan for a while, but the problem with that is all it did was pull a very hot air from the top of the trusses down on top of me. I’d love to have AC out there, but I’m usually fine if I just have some air moving on me. If I can’t get the air moving, I’m worthless when it gets over about 85, especially with the Georgia humidity.

I guess my underlying thought is by the time you fiddle with two or three pedestal fans, you could pick up a squirrel cage blower and move more air, more cheaply, and with less noise.

Just a thought, my two cents like always.

 

[Rick W]

Macon, FB marketplace

 

[Curious Hound]

Macon, FB marketplace



View attachment 131593
View attachment 131594

That's not a 7.3 Godzilla OR a FE motor.

Typical TRS thread drift.

 

[JoshT]

Understood. Shed of miracles is 20x45 over a concrete pad. 9’8” inside at the wall, with about a 6 foot peak to the top of the W trusses I have two of the mushroom roof looking exhaust fans set at about 90. One is dead right now, project for the fall.

For a few years, I was a regular at Goodwill, and I bought every breeze box, oscillating, etc. fan I could get my hands on. They were usually $5.00. I must have 10 or 15 of them. This time of year, even if I’m working in the driveway, I set one up blowing on me.

I just picked up a residential 110 V squirrel cage blower from a furnace. The housing and the motor is OK, but the squirrel cage got damaged and it’s out of balance. Those things move a ton of air for little money. I’m thinking if I mounted it up high, it will never be in my way, and it would probably blow a good stream of air, the length of the garage.

Ok so not far off on the footprint, but I'm taller and I think yours is built out of materials with better insulating properties.

I guess I should have been a little more precise.

I'm not talking about household pedestal and box fans, I'm talking about their bigger and stronger shop cousins. There's a few squirrel cage fans around too, both the scavenged and purchased varieties.

You likely understood, but by gable fan I'm not talking about a ceiling fan. More like an attic exhaust fan. Up high in the gable and when turned on it sucks out the hot air up near the roof. I would not want a ceiling fan pulling that hot air down to where I'm working.