4x4 in reverse

[rubydist]

My limited experience with autolocking hubs on a Ranger is that they do in fact unlock and relock if you shift to reverse, and given that they do not relock reliably you may or may not still have 4x4 after you shift. I didn't put up with them too long before I put on manual lockers, but I know they locked and unlocked as much when they wanted to as when I wanted them to.

 

[James Morse]

I see I have gone down a rabbit hole because some things especially talking D44 and different gears, I'm lost. It will take me a bit to catch up.
It sounds to me like you really don't want a super strong hub because you do want them to break before something else.
I have seen this cascading effect in other instances where you fix the broken thing then then it's stronger than everything else and you get other failures as a result.
Someone mentioned shear pins I don't know if this comes into it for me.
My gut feel is Ford set it up to find the balance between streetable and can also do some off road. Some things I'll change if it doesn't take it far from OEM (like hubs).
I watched TRS off road videos and I'd say what I want to do is maybe 10-20% of that most of those trucks are highly modified.
My book says don't drive in water over the hubs. I imagine if you do they get wet? But I see trucks with snorkels so that makes me wonder.
Thanks much for info on parts that makes me feel a lot better about it.

 

[don4331]

Your Ranger doesn't have shear pins. A snow blower has shear pins in it, so when you a block of ice (or a rock) gets fed in, rather than mangling the whole machine, the pin shears. Then you can dig it out, remove the offending item replace the pin and be going again.

The seals on your axles (transfer case, transmission, engine) are designed to keep rain water spray and the occasional deep puddle out. When you drive in water more than hub deep, it will overwhelm the seal and dirty water will get in. Then you have the fun of disassembling to dry everything out, cleaning the dirt out, repacking bearings, put in clean oil and reassemble it. If you don't dry & clean, you will be replacing parts. Moisture and iron = rust and rust and bearings are not a good combination.

The automatic hubs unlock and relock as you switch from forward to reverse. Dad blew 3 sets out on his F-150 when he got bogged down in snow in winter/mud in spring and tried rocking back & forth to get out. Ford gave up on warranty replacing them and installed the HD Warn manual ones. He never had an issue after.

As this is enthusiast site, we tend to push things. So, you will find discussions on how to 'improve' things. Some, like Dana 44 knuckles* are probably beyond what you'd want to do in a truck you intend to keep for years.

Ranger 5 x 4.5" wheel pattern is really too small for drive axle, spindle, bearing, and hub; Dana 44 off F-150 has 5 x 5.5" and that extra 1" allows for fitting of a lot stronger parts.​

 

[4x4junkie]

Somewhere I think I may have read or heard that the Warn 37780 pt# was converted to 29071 (in other words, the 37780 hubs were being sold under pt# 29071 at some point), but never did verify. But I guess that's here nor there since I too have now come up empty for anyone having either pt# in stock.

I did find this though:

AVM 465 XP Ford Ranger Explorer 1990-1997 Mazda B4000 Lock outs Hubs EXTREME!!

Up for sale is a set of 2 new premium AVM free wheeling locking hubs. These are the EXTREME High Performance lock out 90% stronger then the standard 465 Made for the off roaders! Thicker and stronger the the HD! All steel not cast alloy, Fits Ford ranger 1990-1997 Ford Explorer 1990-1994 with...

ccsurplus.ecwid.com

and also

AVM 465 XP Ford Ranger Explorer 1990-1997 Mazda B4000 Lock outs Hubs EXTREME!! | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for AVM 465 XP Ford Ranger Explorer 1990-1997 Mazda B4000 Lock outs Hubs EXTREME!! at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

AVM pt# 465XP

The text on the page reads:

Up for sale is a set of 2 new premium AVM free wheeling locking hubs.

These are the EXTREAM High Performance lock out 90% stronger then the standard 465 Made for the off roaders! Thicker and stronger the the HD! All steel not cast alloy,

Fits Ford ranger 1990-1997
Ford Explorer 1990-1994 with 27 splines

This set fits all makes below and others

Mazda pickup 1994-1997
Navajo 1990-1994

There also is an AVM 465HP hub, which I assume to be the lower-strength version. Both Duck Duck Go and Google aren't bringing up much info on the XP hubs outside of the above two sources though.

 

[lowspeedpursuit]

Sick, thank you for figuring that out! $180 is a way better price than Randy's wanted, and even what Broncograveyard wants for the regular-strength Warns. I wonder how many C&C Surplus has available, and if they can keep getting more, or if they're NOS.

Now all we need is a Chromoly driver's inner axle shaft.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

Say, about the 4x4
If I pull off the driveway onto the yard to get the other truck in, it slopes downhill. Probably with 2wd I would not be able to back up.
Can I put the truck in 4x4 and then will the hubs engage if I go only in reverse? Or would I have to be going forward for them to engage?
I mean, I could do the latter - put it in 4x4 before I pull down onto the grass... just wondering.

They should lock in reverse as long as the button is pushed or lever is pulled.

 

[James Morse]

Getting closer to doing hubs, saw the TRS instructions.

AVM
Mile Marker
Warn - can't find them yet

I think those were the ones mentioned. If it's a choice AVM or MM, much diff either way?
Don't think it's worth looking in junkyard they are not all that expensive.

I don't need to go super heavy duty I'd rather have them break before something else.

Someday maybe I go Dana 44 but it sure isn't happening today.

 

[wildbill23c]

I had Mile Marker hubs on my Bronco 2, unless you are out trying to go rock crawling, Mile Marker hubs will work just fine.

 

[James Morse]

And my understanding is with manual hubs they will -not- unlock/relock when I reverse direction is that true? I see that as an advantage.
Sounds like either MM or AVM would be fine. I imagine OEM was Warn. I mean, you couldn't have got manual hubs with auto trans as oem but they did have manual hubs available with manual trans.
Maybe wouldn't be a bad idea to change out xfr case to manual sometime, I think that's do-able right? Or does it take major surgery.

 

[Curious Hound]

Manual hubs lock when you turn the knob wheel o “lock” and unlock when you turn the knob to “free”.

The transfer case swap isn’t too bad. The hard part is finding the shifter and linkage. Seems like t-cases are everywhere. But the shifters and linkage get lost. There’s nothing wrong with the electric shift t-case as long as you exercise it to keep the switch contacts and motor brushes clean.

 

[James Morse]

OK.
Interestingly in the manual they show in the section on manual xfr case what it looks like if you have auto trans and manual xft vs manual trans and manual xfr. Afaik manual xft wasn't offered as an option, but interesting that it could have been an option, maybe special order. I mean, they tell you how to install that setup so they sure as hell were thinking about it being done.
Am I correct in assuming if I take up the carpet I will see a cutout cover plate (but small, not big like manual trans) over it and probably a rubber filler in the hole where the shift for the xfr case goes?
If so then mainly what you f up is the carpet because there has to be a hole there. You'd have to pull the carpet to get to it. Frankly it would be sticking up right in the middle of where there is currently nice carper so cosmetically that's a minus.
If you say the truck needs to be exercised I sure agree with that. It probably is just fine to keep the electronic xfr shift if it performs ok.

It's the Borg-Warner 1354 xfr case. If let's say the xfr shift switch/wiring/motor fails, can you get under the truck and push it shifted by hand?

I see that there was a setup of 7.5" rear end and 4.10 final drive. But the 4.10 wasn't offered with the 8.8" isn't that weird.

My book says you can tow in N at legal speeds for an extended time without disconnecting any driveshafts, it'll get lubed ok front/back. That's nice to know.

They say to go to 4L: 1) has to be in Neutral 2) brake has to be pressed 3) have to be under 3mph all 3 must be true.

Speedo gear is in xfr case. would have to take case apart and take yoke out then you can get to it. Doesn't look that easy.
That's in relation to tires and whether I would ever want to change speedo gear if I changed tire size.

 

[RonD]

The mechanical drive speedometer was last used in 1997, so transmissions, manual or auto, don't have it in 1998 and up, and the same for 1998 and up transfer cases
The speedo gear on 1997 and earlier you change is easy to access, its the Driven gear, not the Drive gear on the output shaft

1998-2000 Rangers use rear axle ABS sensor with GEM module to do speed out to speedo/cruise and computer
GEM module could be programmed for tire size, axle ratio didn't matter because ABS sensor is reading axle rotation not driveshaft rotation, and axle is always 1:1, lol

2001 and up got an OSS(output shaft speed) sensor on the transmission, 2wd or 4wd, the Computer is used to calculate actual speed and that signal is sent to speedo/cruise
Computer can be programmed for tire size and axle ratio
On 4WDs the computer converts speed to reflect the ratio change in 4Low

 

[James Morse]

Oh ok so that sounds a lot easier than I thought on the 1997 I'll look at it again I'm looking at the wrong gear there will be a diff section on speedo. THANKS.

I guess later versions of speedo setup have their advantages but if the gear isn't hard to change I prefer non-computer it seems easier to fix.

 

[RonD]

Good article here on Rangers speedo changes: https://www.therangerstation.com/tech/speedometers-how-they-work/

1995 and up were electric speedometers, no more speedo cable, but still used gear drive thru 1997

 

[James Morse]

Edited. This is about the '97.
Mine has Output shaft sensor 7H103. I have Var Speed Sensor 9E731.

I have 2 books. Is there another book? I find on speedo only that it tells you the spec calibrations and it says there is a Supplemental Chart for the gear to use with specific tire size and final drive ratio if it's not in spec. I think I do not have that Supplemental. This is in the section on the transfer case where they say if you want to change this you need to remove the yoke. You're saying this isn't the gear I -might- want to change to correct speedo. That seems contrary to my manual, but I don't doubt what you say so that's part of the confusion.

It seems like my manuals should have all the info so I don't have to ask these, what must seem like, stupid questions.

Just to understand it for the moment, and I did read the TRS article (still confused).
Where is OSS and where is VSS on my truck?
Which of them have gears that requires gear change to change speedo calibration?
Am I blind in not finding more on it in my manuals or am I missing something?