2.3L ('02-'11) $445 to replace two O2 sensors on 2010 Ranger ?!!!!

[Garth Libre]

I have a four cylinder manual tranny, reg cab Ranger (the chepest one you could buy for 2010 I believe). The truck was sold to people who want something simple and basic and thrifty. Well, the truck has a lot of miles on it (over 100,000). I expect things to need fixing but when the engine light went on and the truck stumbled a few times at idle, I knew the problem was probably outside of my understanding. After all, I've done all the regular services on it myself when I bought the truck used 5 years ago. So, I went to Discount Auto and ran a free computer check. It turned out that both O2 sensors needed replacing. I thought .... "Maybe this is something I should have the local dealership in Chattanooga Tennessee do." Boy was I wrong. The dealership quoted $200 parts, labor $120, tax and some other fee? another $25... for an approximate total of just short of $350!!! I left with some serious sticker shock.

I didn't think that it could possibly cost that much for replacing a couple of oxygen sensors especially in a partially rural area where people use older Ranger trucks for survival. At least I knew what the problem was now so quite likely I could do it myself. I ordered an O2 sensor removal tool ($5.99 on Amazon) and two new sensors ($ 30.99 with free shipping). It took me a half hour (really a bit less time because most of it was changing clothes, getting out the tools etc). I never disconnected the battery so even though the stumble went away immediately, it took a few starts and stops for the light to finally go off.

The question is ...if an experienced dealer mechanic could do this job it 15 minutes including going to the parts department, why should the dealership mark up a simple $31 job to $350 ? I thought labor was $100 an hour not $300 an hour.

 

[franklin2]

If you worked behind the scenes in a retail environment, everything is marked up. When you go buy something at a super close out sale for 50% off, they are still making money. It's not just car parts and shop labor.

 

[pentode]

I totally get where you're coming from with how expensive things are getting, but to be honest, for a dealership their $350 quote sounded borderline reasonable to me. Like Franklin2 said, they have their markup, and while I'm glad you got yours working again, you do need to bear in mind that there's usually a pretty big difference between OEM parts quality and Amazon parts quality. Labor is a whole other can of worms, between finding good workers and the skyrocketing costs associated with running a shop, 120/hr (I wouldn't want to pay it if I could avoid it) is on the low end of typical these days. I've seen shops charge 50-100% more than that.

Last month I had 2 tires rebalanced at a local shop. The kid knocked the weights off and clipped new weights on - he was done in 3 minutes. $38. And he did a bad job

You're right though, times are getting really tough if you're not making doctor or lawyer money.

 

[Garth Libre]

I totally get where you're coming from with how expensive things are getting, but to be honest, for a dealership their $350 quote sounded borderline reasonable to me. Like Franklin2 said, they have their markup, and while I'm glad you got yours working again, you do need to bear in mind that there's usually a pretty big difference between OEM parts quality and Amazon parts quality. Labor is a whole other can of worms, between finding good workers and the skyrocketing costs associated with running a shop, 120/hr (I wouldn't want to pay it if I could avoid it) is on the low end of typical these days. I've seen shops charge 50-100% more than that.

Last month I had 2 tires rebalanced at a local shop. The kid knocked the weights off and clipped new weights on - he was done in 3 minutes. $38. And he did a bad job

You're right though, times are getting really tough if you're not making doctor or lawyer money.

Currently, I am making retirement money.... a total of less than 50 grand a year including social security and employer retirement benefits. I'm not complaining. i realize that's a lot of money as some people make a lot less, but there are many good people making less than 30 grand a year working full time and $300 for a basic repair will put a big hurting on them. My conclusion is that this is the reason people keep buying new cars. They can't afford the huge rip offs for unexpected repairs.

 

[franklin2]

My conclusion is that this is the reason people keep buying new cars. They can't afford the huge rip offs for unexpected repairs.

This is a huge revelation. I know people come on these boards to try to do their own work, but some people are just not mechanically inclined and they should not buy a older vehicle. They will go broke paying someone else to repair a older vehicle that they bought cheap. If you can't do your own work, do not buy a very old vehicle of any type.

If you are mechanically inclined and can absorb info off the internet, then that is the best scenario to save some money. But even in that case, I would have at least a spare vehicle to use when the other one goes down. I hate being rushed.

 

[scotts90ranger]

You can bank on pretty much every shop going off an expected average time (don't remember what it's called but mechanics are basically paid by the job not hour), oxygen sensors are one of those things that either is a 15 minute job for both sensors or a 3 hour job involving removing exhaust components to weld on new bungs because the old sensors galled in place and pulled out all of the threads... so they're expecting the medium but would be eating the cost if it was the latter...

I'm with you, the only thing I've farmed out is tire installs/balance and windshields in many years. But I also deal with people on the phone that are technically "mechanics" that shouldn't own tools... there's a good portion of the population that doesn't know what a wrench is...

 

[Brain75]

You can bank on pretty much every shop going off an expected average time (don't remember what it's called but mechanics are basically paid by the job not hour),...

I've most commonly heard that called "book rate" cause there is this huge book of how long (hours of labor) it should take to do xyz job. (big huge bold double caps screaming red font on "should")...
So that said changing the heater core in the book says 1.3 hour... well your truck, my truck 1.3 hour sure, a 2025 japanese car... HA - you have to pull the engine and trans to get to it, to pull the engine and trans you have to drop both front wheels and pull the CV shafts, it is a 4 day affair... so "book rate" is ridiculously off a lot, and mechanics now quote insane rates to cover their butts.

Back in ancient times they published this book every year... Not sure there is even a paper book anymore and everything is online now... The 2 big publishers of this "Mechanics' Labor Rate" book I believe are Mitchell (Identifix) and AllData. I see the labor rate books coming up on ebay and facebook marketplace now.

My guess is that while a great mechanic can do it (your brake job) a lot quicker than book rate, it probably said something like 1.7 hours (most brake stuff is 1.7 hours) - pretty much all mechanics figure $100/hr for labor now so you are looking at $170 in labor, even if their $35/hr apprentice took 20 minutes to do it.

The other biggie is quality (cost) of parts and markup. It is not at all uncommon for mechanic shops to get "better" (on a scale of good/better/best) so it doesn't fail in a week and bite em in the ass and then DOUBLE what they paid in markup and charge you for that.... Dealerships tend to use "best" (aka OEM) and mark it up substantially even as much as double like the average shop.

 

[scotts90ranger]

It's "flat rate" as I just remembered. I have a friend that's a mechanic and he says it's a balance, some jobs he can do faster but some take longer.

But then there's also autozone's machine that just recommended that you replace both oxygen sensors and that's what you did, sure in this case it worked but that's not the only thing that can cause a code that would give that recommendation, something as dumb as cleaning the MAF sensor can fix the same code (your sensors were likely just past their useful life, it's a thing on those), Autozone and the like sell a lot of parts by doing that and anymore it can get expensive really quick when you put a bad brand new part on causing another issue then change another part that's bad and cause another problem and it gets really screwy... all the companies that made all the good parts in the last 5 years have sold off or just decided to quit making stuff in general...

 

[Garth Libre]

It's "flat rate" as I just remembered. I have a friend that's a mechanic and he says it's a balance, some jobs he can do faster but some take longer.

But then there's also autozone's machine that just recommended that you replace both oxygen sensors and that's what you did, sure in this case it worked but that's not the only thing that can cause a code that would give that recommendation, something as dumb as cleaning the MAF sensor can fix the same code (your sensors were likely just past their useful life, it's a thing on those), Autozone and the like sell a lot of parts by doing that and anymore it can get expensive really quick when you put a bad brand new part on causing another issue then change another part that's bad and cause another problem and it gets really screwy... all the companies that made all the good parts in the last 5 years have sold off or just decided to quit making stuff in general...

I guess I did it all ... replaced both O2 sensors, cleaned the Mass Air Flow sensor with the prescribed spray, replaced the air filter, and cleaned all the related parts. There is no stumble and no trouble light lit now.