$300 truck on CL?

[blackbronc]

Is this another pissing contest Gross?

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

If the heads are cracked, your $300 estimate is very low, especially if it has been left that way for a long time.

From what Blackbronc has posted there is no evidence that the heads are cracked or that anything is wrong with anything other than the clutch. I just sold a good running 2.9 for $200, so even if the heads were cracked on this truck for well less than grand you would have a good running 4x4.

If you disable a good running truck that is worth $1k how much do you expect it to be worth? Does $900 sound better for a 21 year old truck with a busted back window that needs a clutch?

Even $300 for a parts truck (depending on condition) isn't too bad like I mentioned before.

This is all pointless anyway because he already stated he isn't going to get it.

 

[AllanD]

while in the legal profession there is a "presumption of innocence"
here you must live under a "presumption of ignorance"

There is a REQUIRED and INHERENT "presumption of IGNORANCE" that ALL tech advisors and moderators abide by whenever the discussion of "converting a 2wd to 4x4" comes up.

Ignorance: "lack of knowledge"

A simple "Lack" is correctable, by simply teaching someone.
Someone who won't (by either inability or willfulness) or who
CANNOT learn is "stupid" And nobody here is making that kind of judgement.... Yet.

Neither I nor MAKG is going to suggest to each other let alone to anyone in a private discussion that the person making the suggestion of "converting" Knows ANYTHING more mechanical than changing spark plugs and changing oil.

In some states welding on the frame is illegal and the vehicle will not pass inspection if they become aware of it.

It is our DUTY to point out the pitfalls as being likely and inevetible rather than simply "possible" or "probable", because we do not know you, your techncal ability your tools or your shop facilities.

The simplified phrase used to describe this situation is "If you have to ask we can't explain it to you"
And that constructively means that "if you have to ask we WILL NOT tell you" (atleast not in a public discussion.)

and perversely if you DO have the necissary tools, skills facilities, etc you WILL NOT ask "how" because you'll already know...

Irony.

Even if we could explain it to you in detail there are time constraints. It's like asking for a detailed (screw by screw, wire by wire) explanation of how to do a 5.0 motor swap.

Read back through my posts and you'll find that I CONSISTANTLY recommend AGAINST 2wd to 4x4 conversions if both vehicles are to be TTB when finished.

Yes I know, it's a "do as I say, not as I do",
because my D35/8.8" 4.0 4x4 1987 Supercab
started life as 2.9 2wd truck.
But let me point out that I didn't ask anyone anything, before I did it. And I advised people against doing it before, during & AFTER doing the job. I KNEW what was involved to do so... 22 or 23 years ago? I HAD the equipment skills and materials, I swapped out my crossmember. I had a friend (a certified welder) do the weld beads AFTER we had the crossmember firmly bolted in place and we used a shitpot more weld than Ford did (and got better penetration, I know, because I cut the old welds apart)

MAKG might have come on "a bit heavy handed" but he didn't say
anything I wouldn't have said If I had gotten to the post first.

He is merely spouting "forum dogma", that I had a hand in creating.

We don't know "you", we don't know YOUR skills and until we do we are going to picture you are a pimple faced 17Year old "horny" to screw up his ride with his shiny new cresent wrench.

And I'll add that anyone we DO know that we do KNOW have the tools, materials and skills would NEVER ASK the question in the first place...

It's a basic misunderstanding of the "ground rules" that we as tech advisors must adhere to.

Now as for converting a 2wd to a 4x4 by doing an SAS conversion? I honestly believe that chopping up a perfectly good 4x4 truck to make an SAS 4x4 is nothing less than an act of aggrevated vandalism.

to everyone:
STOP ASSuming MAKG is "trying to pick a fight", it presumes (falsely) that he really CARES what you think, he is trying to steer you away from trouble.
HE has a JOB to do on these forums... I have the same job
so I know what he is doing and why. trust me it is done with the best intent, though it may not seem that way when his steely eyed gaze falls upon your words...

But just because he seems less than "user friendly" do not ASSume he doesn't know whereof he speaks.

I STRONGLY AGREE that most (not all) factory engineered parts are safer than what either of us have seen people cobble together.

Like the V8 swap I recently saw were the hillbilly swapper "notched" (almost completely away) the top flange of the frame rails on BOTH SIDES for exhaust clearance
(it apparrently didn't occur to that specific jackass that there were other exhaust manifolds that could have been used)

Again, WE do NOT know know what you are capable of until you show us, and even then you must be aware that a considerable portion of our aparrent "negativity" is geared towards the ubiquous
"lurkers" that are reading every word and acting on some things...

Any questions?

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Actually the frames are different between the 4x4 and the 4x2 trucks, you have to cut out the main crossmember that also holds the engine and switch it out. It is a pretty involved process, especially to get a weak dana 28 axle. The best way to make a 4x2 a 4x4 IMO would be a SAS, which is still pretty involved.

Now as for converting a 2wd to a 4x4 by doing an SAS conversion? I honestly believe that chopping up a perfectly good 4x4 truck to make an SAS 4x4 is nothing less than an act of aggrevated vandalism.

I didn't say it was easy, just throwing ideas out for him to research and see if he thinks he can do it. Rather than assume people on here are incapable bumps on a log I guess I give too much credit to them to know what they can't do once they see what it takes.

I don't know where I mentioned chopping up a perfectly good 4x4 to make it into a SAS 4x4, yanking a solid axle out of a wreck and sticking it in a lowly 4x2 is what I threw out there.

 

[LittleBigFoot]

I wheel all over the Front Range and my wheel base only really screweded me on some obsticles at China Wall. Of corse then, I tried things I shouldn't have.

For 300 bucks, wheel the shit out of it and enjoy your self!

 

[blackbronc]

Thanx for the tactful enlightenment Allan. I appreciate your situation, I've been there too.

 

[rboyer]

Sometimes fabricating something yourself without any help makes you feel a little better in the end because you can say to yourself "I did this and it works!" and if it doesn't work and fails on the interstate while you're doing 70mph then well, I guess you'll know where you stand in the wonderful world of stupidity. As far as i'm concerned that's just another type of population control. As far as my truck is concerned I don't think i'll ever go past welding a set of nerf bars up to the frame. Atleast the speed of my face falling towards the ground due to a bad weld on the nerf bar will be signifigantly lower than the speed of my face hitting a mack truck on the interstate when my frame falls apart. And the only reason I say that is because I am not someone who has had 10+ years experience with welding steel structures and know enough not to trust my own life in the hands of my possible inexperience.

 

[AllanD]

I've brazed stuff that holds high pressure helium against vacuum in components that are currently in orbit, perhaps no longer used, but they are up there...

I really would trust my life to my own "engineering", but not my own welds...
It's not that I can't weld it's that I don't believe I get enough practice.

I tend to overdesign as opposed to what a friend (an actual trained engineer)
does, "overengineer", he is always looking for minimum material for the strength.
Of course his structures are "optimistic" and fail according to my expectations.
Another friend is an excellent welder, but I wouldn't ask him to design something
unless I wanted it to look like the collision between a wooden outhouse and the
crushed wreck of a fokker triplane. He tends to think "more metal is better", but he doesn't do so intelligently.

I like "elegant", but I'm not trying to save a couple of grams of steel.
I absolutely HATE doing something TWICE because the first one broke.
A real engineer would argue that if it NEVER breaks it's too heavy.
I'd counter by saying that there are somethings that must NEVER break

Suspension attaching brackets fit in that classification.
Front suspension arms too.

AD

 

[MAKG]

A real engineer would argue that if it NEVER breaks it's too heavy.
I'd counter by saying that there are somethings that must NEVER break

I'd fall squarely on your side. ALL engineering decisions trade things off. The safety vs. weight thing is a no-brainer. I'm a "real engineer," though I'm neither an ME nor a PE.

There are DEFINITELY some things that should never break. Like aircraft skins (e.g., look up the De Haviland Comet and Aloha 243). Frames and suspension are not QUITE as hazardous when broken, but such failures can lead to deaths. Just a few of them, not hundreds.

"Overengineering" is called for here, especially since one can't entirely predict operating conditions.

Of course, like all things, there is a limit. Making a 50 ton SUV is a mistake; it will cause other things to fail (for instance, well-known problems with springs and balljoints on Humvees).

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Of course, like all things, there is a limit. Making a 50 ton SUV is a mistake; it will cause other things to fail (for instance, well-known problems with springs and balljoints on Humvees).

I would be more worried about bridges than springs and balljoints at that point.