1997 turbo install {help}

[RebelRanger97]

Well I pulled the oil pan off my 84 turbo motor tonight and found chunks of piston skirt.damn....so I pulled it out and there is a slight score on the cylinder. nothing to serious. So then I pulled a piston from my 83 turbo block and these are a heavier piston . ....but there going in ...after new rings and bearings of course

 

[rocket5979]

The A/F gauge, you'll need to tap into one of the wires off of the computer. I don't remember which one right now and if someone doesn't chime in with it I will go look for you.

James

There is more or less not much point to connecting an AFR gauge to your stocker O2's. You will only be able to see your AFR's in a very narrow range right around stoich. They are narrowband and not really functional for what you use an AFR gauge for in a boost application which is WOT. Get an actual wideband and gauge to do it the correct way so that you can read AFR's across a broader spectrum.

 

[ILLEGALCONCEPTS]

You mean it won't help at all? Not trying to be a d*ck here, just wondering. I personally don't see a need to upgrade to the wideband until you can do something about the air/fuel mixture. Wouldn't the narrow AFG at least tell you when you are getting into trouble?

I am all for the wideband if you have the money and can do something about what it tells you. Trying to custom tune would seem like a waste with the narrow band.

James

 

[rocket5979]

You mean it won't help at all? Not trying to be a d*ck here, just wondering. I personally don't see a need to upgrade to the wideband until you can do something about the air/fuel mixture. Wouldn't the narrow AFG at least tell you when you are getting into trouble?

I am all for the wideband if you have the money and can do something about what it tells you. Trying to custom tune would seem like a waste with the narrow band.

James

James, if this guy is going forced induction then he will need to have the AFR's dialed back in anyways. At that point in time it will be critical for him to be able to know what AFR is doing just in case something within the fuel system fails or maxes out. With a turbo I would recommend a boost gauge too. If you are more or less stock then there is no need for monitoring AFR's because you do not have enough mods that really affect AFR's or fueling requirement anyways.

When going WOT if you are able to see your AFR's popping up in the narrowband AFR gauge then you are already in trouble and probably won't have enough time to react before bending a rod or putting a hole through a piston. Narrowband is also not very accurate or responsive either, let alone that is does not output in a linear fashion which makes the AFR readings it outputs jumpy. Then also factor in that the narrowband is also temperature dependent which means the AFR's it will "see" will read differently as different temps even if they are the same in reality. Narrowband has their place in the OEM auto world because those vehicles are mostly N/A, and have well tested fueling components working together in a known fashion. If a stock vehicle drifts a little too lean then no big deal. But when an aftermarket turbocharged vehicle drifts a little lean some bad things can happen. That is why when doing forced induction you should ALWAYS monitor AFR's with an actual wideband O2, controller, and gauge versus just wiring a gauge into a stocker narrowband sensor.

About the only thing I could see a person wanting to use a narrowband for would be to see what their AFR's are doing while cruising for gas mileage. That is assuming they have the capacity to retune the vehicle to take advantage of that data gathered while near stoich AFR. Other than that a narrowband AFR gauge is more or less just a light show in allot of ways. Do it right, spend a little more money and get the actual wideband. Your engine will thank you later; and your pocket book probably will too.

There are certain things you can save money on when modding your vehicle but going cheap on the ability to properly monitor your AFR's on a vehicle with FI is not one of them in my professional opinion.

 

[ILLEGALCONCEPTS]

I am all for doing the job once and doing it right, and I understand what you are saying. I have both a boost/vac and narrow A/F gauges on my truck. I am not boosted yet, but the parts are sitting here including the forged pistons. I have used both gauges to change my driving style and increase my MPG. There have been people here that have run the stock Ranger computers with up to 15lbs of boost and never had a problem.

Is there a way to take advantage of the wideband w/o going to a custom set-up for the computer? I plan on staying with the Ranger computer as long as possible, I don't plan on more then 15lbs of boost and that will be the high setting. I guess what I want to know is, what does it take to make use of the wideband's information?

I am still learing and always ready to listen to people who have "been there, done that". I just like to ask a lot of questions when I don't understand something.

James

 

[rocket5979]

I am all for doing the job once and doing it right, and I understand what you are saying. I have both a boost/vac and narrow A/F gauges on my truck. I am not boosted yet, but the parts are sitting here including the forged pistons. I have used both gauges to change my driving style and increase my MPG. There have been people here that have run the stock Ranger computers with up to 15lbs of boost and never had a problem.

Is there a way to take advantage of the wideband w/o going to a custom set-up for the computer? I plan on staying with the Ranger computer as long as possible, I don't plan on more then 15lbs of boost and that will be the high setting. I guess what I want to know is, what does it take to make use of the wideband's information?

I am still learing and always ready to listen to people who have "been there, done that". I just like to ask a lot of questions when I don't understand something.

James

Running a wideband AFR gauge setup will have nothing to do with your stocker computer. They are totally separate and do not interfere with each other.

Just get the wideband unit which will come with the little controller and its own wideband O2 sensor. Then just pick the AFR gauge of your preference and wire it all up. The only way the wideband will hook into your vehicle electrical system will be to pull ignition switched 12v power. You will have to get an additional O2 sensor bung welded into your exhaust pipe to attach the wideband O2. When the vehicle is getting tuned you can opt for the tuner to log your AFR's from your wideband through the analog output port if you have them street tune your truck versus dynotune it. Or you can opt to just have the wideband hooked to the gauge and the tuner use their own wideband to log your AFR's and tune the vehicle. The primary use for which I was talking about the wideband in here was for using it with a gauge to ensure that AFR's do not drift too lean when at WOT. It's you option whether you want to do the additional wiring to be able to log your AFR's through a datalogging software for custom tuning purposes.

 

[ILLEGALCONCEPTS]

Yes, I know the wideband would have nothing to do with the stock computer. It can not use the information.

So, the wideband is really only good for custom tuning then. My question is then, do you really need the wideband if you can't do anything about it?

What does the "controller" do for the wideband?

James

 

[rocket5979]

Yes, I know the wideband would have nothing to do with the stock computer. It can not use the information.

So, the wideband is really only good for custom tuning then. My question is then, do you really need the wideband if you can't do anything about it?

What does the "controller" do for the wideband?

James

The wideband is the only real way to monitor your AFR's to ensure things are safe. Even if you cannot modify the tune to fix the issue at least you will know when to get the heck out of the gas so damage can be prevented or at least minimized. The narrowband (gauge hooked up to stocker O2 sensor) cannot do this because of its lack of response time, inaccuracy, and very limited range of AFR's it can monitor.

The controller is the wideband. It is one and the same. You got the wideband O2 sensor that has to plug into its own little computer box (controller) which has to interpret the signal from the wideband sensor and output its own corresponding analog voltage per a given AFR. That voltage signal is what the AFR gauge (or datalogging software) sees and interprets as a given AFR to display.

 

[ILLEGALCONCEPTS]

Ok, I see. So where is the best place to get one and is one brand better then the other? Could someone like me use there current gauge or does that need to be replaced as well?

James

 

[rocket5979]

Ok, I see. So where is the best place to get one and is one brand better then the other? Could someone like me use there current gauge or does that need to be replaced as well?

James

There are many places to pick these up and there are many brands. Most people that want a solid wideband for a good price, and don't mind doing a little wiring usually go with the Innovate LC-1. I run it on my personal turbocharged Lincoln LS for my onboard wideband with my AFR gauge. I don't see any reason why you shouldn't be able to use your current AFR gauge.

 

[RebelRanger97]

Finally I was able to order new bearings and rings .Hopefully in the next few weeks I should have this thing running....or at least close.

 

[RebelRanger97]

I read on another site that the crankcase vent should be plugged off. Do I have to do this and if so how?

 

[Super95]

I read on another site that the crankcase vent should be plugged off. Do I have to do this and if so how?

Don't plug it. Best would probly be to run a hose to a filtered breather with a hose fitting on it, and off to the side.

A turbo system adds cylinder pressure, which multiplies any blow by @ ring/cylinder (among other places). By plugging the valve cover, the crankase pressurizes, by adding a turbo, i imagine you'll be tearin apart + resealing the oil leaks before your rings seat.

What pistons did u get? comp. ratio? what rings?

 

[RebelRanger97]

I'm using a turbo block with the stock turbo pistons. I drilled and tapped it for the crank sensor and I bought new frost plugs, turbo oil return line ,pilot bearing , seals ,gaskets, rings and bearings for it . I'm going to use the 8 plug head from my 97 engine with a water cooled ihi turbo from a 88 turbo coupe.
The rings I bought were perfect circle rings and a felpro gasket kit.

now I just have to find a inner cooler for a turbo coupe .